Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 19568 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2010 01:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by 140.211.11.9 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2010 01:25:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 77207 invoked by uid 500); 22 Apr 2010 01:25:18 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-legal-discuss-archive@apache.org Received: (qmail 77036 invoked by uid 500); 22 Apr 2010 01:25:17 -0000 Mailing-List: contact legal-discuss-help@apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: legal-discuss@apache.org List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list legal-discuss@apache.org Received: (qmail 77029 invoked by uid 99); 22 Apr 2010 01:25:17 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 01:25:17 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.1 required=10.0 tests=AWL,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of zhuruwei@huawei.com designates 119.145.14.67 as permitted sender) Received: from [119.145.14.67] (HELO szxga04-in.huawei.com) (119.145.14.67) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 01:25:12 +0000 Received: from huawei.com (szxga04-in [172.24.2.12]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0L1900IW47XE44@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for legal-discuss@apache.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:24:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0L1900EEY7XE8S@szxga04-in.huawei.com> for legal-discuss@apache.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:24:50 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.70.143.105] by szxml04-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTPA id <0L1900DLQ7XDMF@szxml04-in.huawei.com> for legal-discuss@apache.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:24:50 +0800 (CST) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 09:24:52 +0800 From: Andy Zhu Subject: Re: Question about Apache License 2.0 In-reply-to: To: legal-discuss@apache.org Cc: =?UTF-8?B?6buE6KW/5Y2O?= Message-id: <4BCFA564.30404@huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_NdzVjYMECx+Tz8XKVZmDuw)" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) References: <4BCE54D4.7040800@huawei.com> <4BCE96F7.9010105@huawei.com> --Boundary_(ID_NdzVjYMECx+Tz8XKVZmDuw) Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I got it. Thank you! -- Andy Henri Yandell : > Loosely, yes. > > I could imagine a couple of situations that can apply that still allow > use [non-lawyer speculation, treat with many grains of salt]: > > #1) There are no patents recorded in any country by a contributor to > ABC that read on ABC. > #2) Tom has a separate patent license for all of the patent licenses > from the contributors to ABC, thus does not need the license granted > by the product. > > Hen > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Andy Zhu wrote: > >> Thanks a lot, Hen. >> >> Relevant text: >> "Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor >> hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, >> royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license >> to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer >> the Work, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable >> by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s) >> alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to which such >> Contribution(s) was submitted." >> >> It means Tom needs the patent licenses to use ABC, right? >> Otherwise, what is the point of termination of the patent licenses? >> >> -- Andy >> >> >> Henri Yandell : >> >> Copying relevant text: >> >> "If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a >> cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a >> Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or >> contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to >> You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date >> such litigation is filed. " >> >> Namely, the termination is of the patent licenses granted to Tom for ABC. >> >> Mozilla Public License, iiuc, goes further and removes the license to >> use ABC. I'm not aware of other licenses that go that far (well, apart >> presumably from CDDL which is an MPL derivative). >> >> Hen >> >> 2010/4/20 Andy Zhu : >> >> >> Hi all >> >> Assume that both Tom and I are users of open-source software ABC which >> uses Apache License 2.0. >> If someday Tom institutes patent litigation against me alleging that ABC >> constitutes direct patent infringement, then Tom can not use ABC >> neither, right? >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- Andy >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org >> >> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org > > > --Boundary_(ID_NdzVjYMECx+Tz8XKVZmDuw) Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I got it. Thank you!

-- Andy

Henri Yandell : 
Loosely, yes.

I could imagine a couple of situations that can apply that still allow
use [non-lawyer speculation, treat with many grains of salt]:

#1) There are no patents recorded in any country by a contributor to
ABC that read on ABC.
#2) Tom has a separate patent license for all of the patent licenses
from the contributors to ABC, thus does not need the license granted
by the product.

Hen

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Andy Zhu <zhuruwei@huawei.com> wrote:
  
Thanks a lot, Hen.

Relevant text:
"Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor
hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge,
royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license
to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer
the Work, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable
by such Contributor that are necessarily infringed by their Contribution(s)
alone or by combination of their Contribution(s) with the Work to which such
Contribution(s) was submitted."

It means Tom needs the patent licenses to use ABC, right?
Otherwise, what is the point of termination of the patent licenses?

-- Andy


Henri Yandell :

Copying relevant text:

"If You institute patent litigation against any entity (including a
cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that the Work or a
Contribution incorporated within the Work constitutes direct or
contributory patent infringement, then any patent licenses granted to
You under this License for that Work shall terminate as of the date
such litigation is filed. "

Namely, the termination is of the patent licenses granted to Tom for ABC.

Mozilla Public License, iiuc, goes further and removes the license to
use ABC. I'm not aware of other licenses that go that far (well, apart
presumably from CDDL which is an MPL derivative).

Hen

2010/4/20 Andy Zhu <zhuruwei@huawei.com>:


Hi all

Assume that both Tom and I are users of open-source software ABC which
uses Apache License 2.0.
If someday Tom institutes patent litigation against me alleging that ABC
constitutes direct patent infringement, then Tom can not use ABC
neither, right?

Thanks!

-- Andy


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