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From Anil Vijendran <>
Subject Re: [PROPOSAL] New build targets for Tomcat
Date Sun, 23 Jul 2000 02:33:01 GMT
Sam, I hear you but....

At this point in time, I don't see Tomcat and Jasper as two different packages
or projects. I used to earlier during the formative stages of Jakarta. I had a
mild preference to keep them separate but for some reasons (which I agreed
with but don't remember now) it was decided to keep them the same. So,
basically Tomcat had [a Servlet Engine + a JSP Engine + connectors etc added

The core JSP engine as it stands now is moving in the direction of not only
being a pure servlet (which makes it runnable on other servlet containers) as
well as using servlet engine - specific mechanisms (ex: interceptors) to run
"better" on specific servlet engines. I expect to be able to take full
advantage of Catalina - specific mechanisms for JSP stuff for the next major
release. Given all these developments, it is unclear to me if they should be
two projects or not.

Given the history, especially my mild preference from the past to keep them
separate, I'm sure I can be convinced to have separate builds, make them
separate projects and so on... But I don't want any of this to be driven by
personal biases. Its unfortunate and I hate to feel that way but given Jon's
biases, the fact that Jon is making this proposal does not go down very well
in my mind. Its very hard to look at the original proposal ignoring this bias
-- as this very thread goes to prove, not many people have been able to ignore

There are various arguments that can be made for and against a proposal like
this. And there are various alternatives as well (example: distributing a
Tomcat minus JSP build on some website or the other and even automating it).

All I'm requesting at this point is we take this issue back to the drawing
board, probably ping the user community as well and feed it as input into what
the mission of Jakarta is... I'll give my input to the decision process and
will gladly back the decision whatever it may be. wrote:

> Anil Vijendran wrote:
> >
> > I haven't seen Sam say he wants separate Tomcat + Tomcat w JSP builds.
> Sam?
> I would like to see Tomcat and Jasper be built completely separately, with
> the only requirement being the servletapi and a JAXP compliant parser being
> present.
> > I'm not very relegious about this at all. I just think saying Jakarta is
> about
> > Servlets *and* JSP in one place and then separating them by making
> different
> > builds to suit random whims and fancies undermines Jakarta.
> My own personal opinion is that I see Tomcat and Jasper as two different
> code names, packages, and projects.  As an example, the core Jasper engine
> should be able to be run on top of "classic" Tomcat or the Catalina
> versions of the servlet spec.  Optional features implemented via
> Interceptors, Valves and the like may be tolerable as long as they are not
> required for correct operation.
> As far as packaging goes, I do believe that there should be an easy to find
> package which contains not only Tomcat, but also a JAXP compliant parser
> and the Jasper engine.  But I don't ascribe to the notion that one size
> fits all - if there are requests for different parsers and different
> combination of additional packages, then I'm +1 for that.  For example, I'd
> like to see one which includes Xerces instead of Sun's parser, as well as
> Xalan, Cocoon2 and perhaps a few other packages.  Not all combinations need
> be hosted by Jakarta or Apache.
> I've heard rumors that the next version of the servlet specification will
> require JSP to be bundled with the Servlet.  I believe that that would be
> unfortunate, but in any case should merely be interpreted as a packaging
> statement, and not constrain the architecture of the implementation.
> - Sam Ruby

Peace, Anil +<:-)

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