Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Received: from cust-asf.ponee.io (cust-asf.ponee.io [163.172.22.183]) by cust-asf2.ponee.io (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9587200B21 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:29:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) id E7D0A160A38; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id BF2F9160A15 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 21:29:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 92124 invoked by uid 500); 10 Jun 2016 19:29:17 -0000 Mailing-List: contact users-help@subversion.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list users@subversion.apache.org Received: (qmail 92114 invoked by uid 99); 10 Jun 2016 19:29:17 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd4-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd4-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd4-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 26923C0773 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd4-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.179 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.179 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd4-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=wandisco.com Received: from mx2-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd4-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.11]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqFhRqJwl38v for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-it0-f41.google.com (mail-it0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by mx2-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx2-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 05BA65F23F for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f41.google.com with SMTP id e5so3343036ith.0 for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wandisco.com; s=gapps; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZjbhgaJXEAh1dNGww648TNjUzIvXSL9jNs9LHEeSozo=; b=YSk8pl3YOJhgOxPjH0J2A3AJxf2HKPsnkdsAbzBsBh7J9uyi+thjwaLlmhu9mQTzS6 Ulb+gf1hJKoIjrJHo3ccwJ/2grq+8Tt7dsI/six40yuM0Z+M9zpj9Aqj8SQaqbbPBs3I HLMmwEGOkoifGK5IYvxQTCopJPPjM2V8lBBvk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZjbhgaJXEAh1dNGww648TNjUzIvXSL9jNs9LHEeSozo=; b=ZaAjncUSbczwmzgcv0sDRdXFUQrJqNRGJM7ZFULer3+J76WfndZ8k67aUTxQz0hEv3 58m/UOyCg4/duc1tqAh1Ei0QGswoTqQVtW7yHXqng+1s1uYn4pElUNwJ70teu8Al0vjr DmxEFbE65DhSoK6yOTThvcCyuoXQ/yoni48DfMG/jjTUIwtVzLKZps2qCv5NDdqftQTT KnQuxXnBtNFTxJ4aDclbC8AkYKZYgD+qBKicmXeKa64rDA4RQwM6an0KQKFJTfNgrscI x0MfD+zdrv+JOBH2xMROfzRfXuvEcoTaxDc9DYRH093DJC5ejJOTpe7tTiWO4DCh8TMV pUdw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIFO/E57akLBxIn48zejJkFkS5fchFJEiq9YjBTMauZceEJAQEO0N6Fl8aenNasQM56Rk/nnXJepQrgePunwKQECprzyUso9sW30qPJz96CM4cZtHMs91JkpsG/Sy0qqw7nnchOpdwL5hMtWRIBCA== X-Received: by 10.36.227.12 with SMTP id d12mr1107367ith.49.1465586953126; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.36.111.18 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2016 12:29:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5b401c90-6eb8-494d-b010-2d36e36ad3af@googlegroups.com> From: Doug Robinson Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 15:29:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: which version control supports file locking and who has it locked To: Jan Keirse Cc: Andreas Stieger , users@subversion.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c111716bad5bf0534f18d44 archived-at: Fri, 10 Jun 2016 19:29:20 -0000 --94eb2c111716bad5bf0534f18d44 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jan: Thanks for the note about CVS watches. I was unaware of that feature. Interesting. I agree, such a feature would tend to go directly against the requirements for a DVCS. Doug On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Jan Keirse wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Doug Robinson > wrote: > >> Andreas: >> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Andreas Stieger >> wrote: >> >>> > or knowing who is actually working on a file. >>> >>> Incorrect, this is shown in both TortoiseSVN and svn cli. >>> >> >> To be more precise, you can know who, in the past, has made changes to >> files >> *and*checked those change into the repository. You cannot know who has >> made changes >> in their working copy and has not yet checked them back into the >> repository (they >> may never do so). >> >> To know who is actually working on a file requires a level of integratio= n >> that is not >> found in SVN, Git or CVS. I have a vague recollection of an SCM that di= d >> enable >> such information but I'm not remembering which one it is at the moment. >> >> > =E2=80=8BWhether it is possible to know who is working on a file is not t= he same > as what the changes made so far in the working copy are. This IS possible > without much problems with at least CVS with minor effort: By setting a > watch on a module alle files in that module are checked out read only. > Before changing a file one uses the CVS edit command, that takes care of > making the file read/write and keep track of who edits what. I'm not > entirely sure if this is the behavior the SVN implementation supports. > Off course it is possible to ignore the read-only flag and use operating > system tools to overwrite them without first using the edit command, but = as > long as everyone involved knows the tools this works very well and > accidents are unlikely because files are read-only by default. The only > problem might be you only find out you had not yet edited a file the firs= t > time you save changes and fixing that requires either a habit change (the > new habit being either first edit or save early, save often, which is a > good idea anyway) or a simple trigger in your IDE. > > We have used this CVS feature with success in the past for source files > that require 'exclusive edits' because merging was next-to-impossible (as > would be the case for many binary file.) When we migrated to Subversion f= or > unrelated reasons I couldn't quite get it to work like we wanted (if I > remember correctly taking a lock was more on a voluntary basis, you > couldn't make the files read-only by default and therefore accidentally > forgetting to lock was far more likely.) So I ended up implementing an ed= it > trigger in the IDE to handle this, which works fine for our use case but > might not be possible in other setups. > > I don't see how it could be implemented in a DVCS though, at least not > without a non-distributed part added to it which defeats at least some of > its purpose. > > As for other systems supporting this functionality, to answer the origina= l > question: At least Microsoft TFS and Roundtable TSMS (a platform intended > specifically for OpenEdge ABL) support it to some extent. This being said= , > I wouldn't pick any of these or CVS over something like Subversion, GIT o= r > Mercurial if I were to make the choice. > > **** DISCLAIMER **** > > http://www.tvh.com/glob/en/email-disclaimer > > "This message is delivered to all addressees subject to the conditions > set forth in the attached disclaimer, which is an integral part of this > message." > --=20 *DOUGLAS B. ROBINSON* SENIOR PRODUCT MANAGER *T *925-396-1125 *E* doug.robinson@wandisco.com *www.wandisco.com * --=20 Learn how WANdisco Fusion solves Hadoop data protection and scalability=20 challenges Listed on the London Stock Exchange: WAND=20 THIS MESSAGE AND ANY ATTACHMENTS ARE CONFIDENTIAL, PROPRIETARY, AND MAY BE= =20 PRIVILEGED. If this message was misdirected, WANdisco, Inc. and its=20 subsidiaries, ("WANdisco") does not waive any confidentiality or privilege.= =20 If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and=20 destroy the message without disclosing its contents to anyone. Any=20 distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains= =20 by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. The views and=20 opinions expressed in this e-mail message are the author's own and may not= =20 reflect the views and opinions of WANdisco, unless the author is authorized= =20 by WANdisco to express such views or opinions on its behalf. All email=20 sent to or from this address is subject to electronic storage and review by= =20 WANdisco. Although WANdisco operates anti-virus programs, it does not=20 accept responsibility for any damage whatsoever caused by viruses being=20 passed. --94eb2c111716bad5bf0534f18d44 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jan:

Thanks for the note about CVS watc= hes.=C2=A0 I was unaware of that feature.=C2=A0 Interesting.

=
I agree, such a feature would tend to go directly against the re= quirements for a DVCS.

Doug

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 10:1= 9 AM, Jan Keirse <jan.keirse@tvh.com> wrote:

On Mon, Jun 6= , 2016 at 3:47 PM, Doug Robinson <doug.robinson@wandisco.com&= gt; wrote:
Andrea= s:

On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 3:50 AM, Andreas Stieger <Andreas.Stieger@gm= x.de> wrote:
> or = knowing who is actually working on a file.

Incorrect, this is shown in both TortoiseSVN and svn cli.

To be more precise, you can know who, in t= he past, has made changes to files and
checked those change into = the repository.=C2=A0 You cannot know who has made changes
in their work= ing copy and has not yet checked them back into the repository (they
may= never do so).

To know who is actually wo= rking on a file requires a level of integration that is not
found= in SVN, Git or CVS.=C2=A0 I have a vague recollection of an SCM that did e= nable
such information but I'm not remembering which one it i= s at the moment.


=E2=80=8BWhether it is poss= ible to know who is working on a file is not the same as what the changes m= ade so far in the working copy are. This IS possible without much problems = with at least CVS with minor effort: By setting a watch on a module alle fi= les in that module are checked out read only. Before changing a file one us= es the CVS edit command, that takes care of making the file read/write and = keep track of who edits what. I'm not entirely sure if this is the beha= vior the SVN implementation supports.=C2=A0
Off course it is possible to ignore the read-only flag a= nd use operating system tools to overwrite them without first using the edi= t command, but as long as everyone involved knows the tools this works very= well and accidents are unlikely because files are read-only by default.=C2= =A0 The only problem might be you only find out you had not yet edited a fi= le the first time you save changes and fixing that requires either a habit = change (the new habit being either first edit or save early, save often, wh= ich is a good idea anyway) =C2=A0or a simple trigger in your IDE.=C2=A0

We have used this CVS feature with success in th= e past for source files that require 'exclusive edits' because merg= ing was next-to-impossible (as would be the case for many binary file.) Whe= n we migrated to Subversion for unrelated reasons I couldn't quite get = it to work like we wanted (if I remember correctly taking a lock was more o= n a voluntary basis, you couldn't make the files read-only by default a= nd therefore accidentally forgetting to lock was far more likely.) So I end= ed up implementing an edit trigger in the IDE to handle this, which works f= ine for our use case but might not be possible in other setups.=C2=A0
=

I don't see how it could be implemented in a D= VCS though, at least not without a non-distributed part added to it which d= efeats at least some of its purpose.=C2=A0

= As for other systems supporting this functionality, to answer the original = question: At least Microsoft TFS and Roundtable TSMS (a platform intended s= pecifically for OpenEdge ABL) support it to some extent. This being said, I= wouldn't pick any of these or CVS over something like Subversion, GIT = or Mercurial if I were to make the choice.=C2=A0

**** DISCLAIMER ****

http://www.tvh.com/glob/en/email-disc= laimer

"This message is delivered to all a= ddressees subject to the conditions
set forth in the attached disclaimer= , which is an integral part of this
message."




--
DOUGLAS B. ROBINS= ON=C2=A0SENIOR PRODUCT MANAGER

www.wandisco.com


Learn how WANdisco Fusion solves Hadoop data protection an= d scalability challenges

L= isted on the London Stock Exchange:=C2=A0WAND<= /p>

THIS MESSAGE AND ANY= ATTACHMENTS ARE CONFIDENTIAL, PROPRIETARY, AND MAY BE PRIVILEGED. =C2=A0If= this message was misdirected, WANdisco, Inc. and its subsidiaries, ("= WANdisco") does not waive any confidentiality or privilege. =C2=A0If y= ou are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately and destroy= the message without disclosing its contents to anyone. =C2=A0Any distribut= ion, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other = than an intended recipient is unauthorized. =C2=A0The views and opinions ex= pressed in this e-mail message are the author's own and may not reflect= the views and opinions of WANdisco, unless the author is authorized by WAN= disco to express such views or opinions on its behalf. =C2=A0All email sent= to or from this address is subject to electronic storage and review by WAN= disco. =C2=A0Although WANdisco operates anti-virus programs, it does not ac= cept responsibility for any damage whatsoever caused by viruses being passe= d.

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