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From: John Maher <JohnM@rotair.com>
To: Ryan Schmidt <subversion-2012c@ryandesign.com>
CC: Subversion Users <users@subversion.apache.org>
Subject: RE: Strange behavior
Thread-Topic: Strange behavior
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:12:30 +0000
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Thanks Ryan.  I learned a lot from your reply.  Namely the global-ignores a=
re really local global-ignores and I have to copy the config file over to a=
nyone who may import.  I also appreciate your description of the in-place i=
mport.  I like the idea of being able to un-add a file.  That allows you to=
 experiment with wildcards without fear of damaging the repository.  Adding=
 a file to the repository that you do not wish can be considered damaging i=
f it guarantees a merge conflict every time.

Thanks again
JM

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Schmidt [mailto:subversion-2012c@ryandesign.com]=20
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:25 PM
To: John Maher
Cc: Subversion Users
Subject: Re: Strange behavior


On Aug 12, 2013, at 09:17, John Maher wrote:

> Thanks for your help, but I still do not know how to get this to work.  P=
erhaps I should give a little background.  The project that I mentioned in =
my original post was a test project created just to learn how to get subver=
sion to work.  The production code that I wish to put in one repository res=
ides in 62 directories that have over 2000 files in them of which only some=
 of them can be included otherwise merging becomes impossible.  The whole p=
oint of this exercise is to get merging to work since it causes unnecessary=
 difficultly to try to separate new features with bug fixes in a single bra=
nch.  But this is all I could get to work.  Unfortunately no matter how muc=
h I read (I read the first half of the book twice) and how much I checkout =
and commit the tool fails to work for me.

I'll let others address your merging questions, since I read the book befor=
e Subversion 1.5 was released, when merge tracking was introduced, which ha=
s simplified merging considerably.


> And the only reason I have been complaining about the documentation is ho=
ping to point out areas where it is very unclear and misleading.  Anyone wh=
o knows how to use the tool will never catch on to the poorly written areas=
 of the documentation, they are biased.  You NEED someone who doesn't know =
how to use the tool to indicate areas that need to be addressed.


I totally agree, and please continue doing this. I did originally learn Sub=
version by reading the book, so that was the basis for my praise of it, but=
 I have learned many more things by reading years of messages on this list =
so sometimes it's hard for me to recall where a particular bit of knowledge=
 came from.=20


> Now the two suggestions I have are auto properties and in place import.  =
The links provided do not relate to my situation.

I think when I said auto-props, I meant global-ignores. Sorry about that. T=
hey're related in that they're both considered when importing. I think I se=
e why I said that: you wrote:

> Does import work with the ignore property?  It mentions it in the help, b=
ut I do not know if the help is wrong.  If properties  need to be applied t=
o a working directory how do I use them with the import command BEFORE a wo=
rking copy exists?

I was confusing the svn:ignore property with the global-ignores config file=
 setting. The svn:ignore property is applied to a directory so that files i=
nside it might be ignored (and which affects all users who might check out =
a working copy of this directory), and yes, that has to happen in a working=
 copy. The global-ignores setting in your Subversion config file has a simi=
lar function but affects all working copies and import actions you perform,=
 regardless what server is involved, and affects only you.


> The provided link indicates properties that get set DURING the import.  I=
 need to ignore files BEFORE the import.  Like I originally stated, I need =
to import SOME files.  Importing compiler generated files OR user settings =
causes problem and makes merging impossible thereby defeating some of the b=
enefits of using subversion.  If this method will solve this problem can yo=
u provide me with a link indicating how to do this?  I can not find anythin=
g in the book nor the provided link.  If you could give me some keywords to=
 search for that would help also.  I tried searching and all I find is ques=
tions relating to different actions.
>=20
> I looked at the import command in the book and with the svn help command =
and could not see how to use the svn:ignore.  The import-in-place command w=
orks on a single file.  That would indicate I would need to issue the comma=
nd hundreds of times.  Are you sure this is the only way?  It would seem od=
d that this toll does not provide a way to import an enterprise level appli=
cation without ignoring the compiler generated files.

The in-place import does not operate on a single file; it is a procedure fo=
r importing any number of items within a directory. The example in the FAQ =
showed how to do an in-place import of four files in /etc. I'll try to expl=
ain in more detail.


Let's say you have a directory of original files, and a repository you want=
 to import them into. You want to import some files but not others. Maybe y=
ou want to set properties on some files, such as MIME types or line ending =
styles.


=3D=3D Normal Import =3D=3D

With a normal import, you run a single command "svn import" and the content=
s of the directory are imported into the repository. While doing so, Subver=
sion considers your global-ignores (to decide which files not to import) an=
d your auto-props (to decide what properties to apply to files that are imp=
orted), but there is no opportunity to inspect the results of that consider=
ation before the files are committed to the repository.

Once a normal import is completed, your original directory is untouched. To=
 get a working copy that you can perform additional Subversion operations i=
n, you have to check it out from the repository, and then usually delete yo=
ur original directory. But if there are any files in the original directory=
 that you did not import, but that you still want to have in the new workin=
g copy, you have to manually move them over.

If what got imported wasn't what you wanted, you have to clean it up later =
in the working copy -- "svn rm" files you didn't mean to import; "svn add" =
files you wanted to import but forgot; "svn mv" files around -- or "svn rm"=
 the entire imported directory and try again, or maybe even delete the whol=
e repository and start over if that's what you want (and it might be, if yo=
u imported huge files that you didn't need, since "svn rm" won't recover th=
e space they used, or confidential files, since otherwise they'll forever b=
e in the history).

In my opinion, "svn import" is ok for importing small collections of files,=
 where you want to import everything (or are sure your global-ignores cover=
 every file you don't want to import) and don't care about properties (or a=
re sure your auto-props cover every situation). For larger or more complica=
ted imports, I choose the in-place import method.


=3D=3D In-Place Import =3D=3D

Instead of "svn import", I often prefer and in-place import. In this method=
, you first "svn mkdir" an empty directory in the repository where your fil=
es will go. Then you "svn co" this directory on top of your directory of or=
iginal files, thereby transforming it into a working copy with unversioned =
files. You can then "svn add" files you want to import. If you add a file y=
ou didn't want (perhaps by running "svn add *") you can "svn revert" the fi=
le to essentially "un-add" it. You can "svn ps" to set additional propertie=
s. (Perhaps you want to set "svn:ignore" on some directories.) You haven't =
committed anything yet, except for the creation of the empty directory. You=
 can continue to modify your pending commit as desired, using "svn st" as o=
ften as you like to inspect what will be committed, and finally "svn ci" wh=
en ready to commit it.

And as noted, your original directory of files has *become* the working cop=
y, which is often what people want anyway.


The FAQ entry on in-place import is pretty limited, I concede. I assume tha=
t since it is a FAQ entry it is not in the book. I would like to see the in=
-place import method described in greater detail, in the book, replacing th=
e FAQ entry.