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From Brian O'Neill <b...@alumni.brown.edu>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Pulling "Contrib" Modules into Apache
Date Wed, 26 Feb 2014 21:38:52 GMT

Bobby,

FWIW, I¹d love to see storm-yarn inside.  I think we could definitely make
things easier on the end-user if they were more cohesive.

e.g. Imagine if we had ³storm launch yarn² inside of $storm/bin that would
kickoff a storm-yarn launch, with whatever version was built.  It would
likely simplify the ³create-tarball² and storm-yarn getStormConfig process
as well.

-brian

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Brian O'Neill
Chief Technology Officer

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On 2/26/14, 4:25 PM, "Bobby Evans" <evans@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:

>I totally agree and I am +1 on bringing these spout/trident pieces in,
>assuming there are committers to support them.
>
>I am also curious about how people feel about pulling in other projects
>like storm-starter, storm-deploy, storm-mesos, and storm-yarn?
>
>Storm-starter in my option seems more like documentation and it would be
>nice to pull in so that it stays up to date with storm itself, just like
>the documentation.
>
>The others are more of ways to run storm in different environments.  They
>seem like there could be a lot of coupling between them and storm as
>storm evolves, and they kind of fit with "integrate storm with
>*Technology X*² except X in this case is a compute environment instead of
>a data source or store. But then again we also just shot down a request
>to create juju charms for storm.
>
>‹Bobby
>
>From: "P. Taylor Goetz" <ptgoetz@gmail.com<mailto:ptgoetz@gmail.com>>
>Reply-To: 
><dev@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2014 at 1:21 PM
>To: 
><dev@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Cc: 
>"user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>"
><user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Pulling "Contrib" Modules into Apache
>
>Thanks for the feedback Bobby.
>
>To clarify, I¹m mainly talking about spout/bolt/trident state
>implementations that integrate storm with *Technology X*, where
>*Technology X* is not a fundamental part of storm.
>
>Examples would be technologies that are part of or related to the
>Hadoop/Big Data ecosystem and enable the Lamda Architecture, e.g.: Kafka,
>HDFS, HBase, Cassandra, etc.
>
>The idea behind having one or more Storm committers act as a ³sponsor² is
>to make sure new additions are done carefully and with good reason. To
>add a new module, it would require committer/PPMC consensus, and
>assignment of one or more sponsors. Part of a sponsor¹s job would be to
>ensure that a module is maintained, which would require enough
>familiarity with the code so support it long term. If a new module was
>proposed, but no committers were willing to act as a sponsor, it would
>not be added.
>
>It would be the Committers¹/PPMC¹s responsibly to make sure things didn¹t
>get out of hand, and to do something about it if it does.
>
>Here¹s an old Hadoop JIRA thread [1] discussing the addition of Hive as a
>contrib module, similar to what happened with HBase as Bobby pointed out.
>Some interesting points are brought up. The difference here is that both
>HBase and Hive were pretty big codebases relative to Hadoop. With
>spout/bolt/state implementations I doubt we¹d see anything along that
>scale.
>
>- Taylor
>
>[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HADOOP-3601
>
>
>On Feb 26, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Bobby Evans
><evans@yahoo-inc.com<mailto:evans@yahoo-inc.com>> wrote:
>
>I can see a lot of value in having a distribution of storm that comes
>with batteries included, everything is tested together and you know it
>works.  But I don¹t see much long term developer benefit in building them
>all together.  If there is strong coupling between storm and these
>external projects so that they break when storm changes then we need to
>understand the coupling and decide if we want to reduce that coupling by
>stabilizing APIs, improving version numbering and release process, etc.;
>or if the functionality is something that should be offered as a base
>service in storm.
>
>I can see politically the value of giving these other projects a home in
>Apache, and making them sub-projects is the simplest route to that.  I¹d
>love to have storm on yarn inside Apache.  I just don¹t want to go
>overboard with it.  There was a time when HBase was a ³contrib² module
>under Hadoop along with a lot of other things, and the Apache board came
>and told Hadoop to brake it up.
>
>Bringing storm-kafka into storm does not sound like it will solve much
>from a developer¹s perspective, because there is at least as much
>coupling with kafka as there is with storm.  I can see how it is a huge
>amount of overhead and pain to set up a new project just for a few
>hundred lines of code, as such I am in favor of pulling in closely
>related projects, especially those that are spouts and state
>implementations. I just want to be sure that we do it carefully, with a
>good reason, and with enough people who are familiar with the code to
>support it long term.
>
>If it starts to look like we are pulling in too many projects perhaps we
>should look at something more like the bigtop project
>https://bigtop.apache.org/ which produces a tested distribution of Hadoop
>with many different sub-projects included in it.
>
>I am also a bit concerned about these sub-projects becoming second class
>citizens, where we break something, but because the build is off by
>default we don¹t know it.  I would prefer that they are built and tested
>by default.  If the build and test time starts to take too long, to me
>that means we need to start wondering if we have too many contrib modules.
>
>‹Bobby
>
>From: Brian Enochson
><brian.enochson@gmail.com<mailto:brian.enochson@gmail.com><mailto:brian.en
>ochson@gmail.com>>
>Reply-To: 
>"user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org><m
>ailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>"
><user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org><m
>ailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 at 9:50 PM
>To: 
>"user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org><m
>ailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>"
><user@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org><m
>ailto:user@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Cc: 
>"dev@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org><mai
>lto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org>"
><dev@storm.incubator.apache.org<mailto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org><mai
>lto:dev@storm.incubator.apache.org>>
>Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Pulling "Contrib" Modules into Apache
>
>hi,
>  I am in agreement with Taylor and believe I understand his intent. An
>incredible tool/framework/application like Storm is only enhanced and
>gains value from the number of well maintained and vetted modules that
>can be used for integration and adding further functionality.
> I am relatively new to the Storm community but have spent quite some
>time reviewing contributing modules out there, reviewing various
>duplicates and running into some version incompatibilities. I understand
>the need to keep Storm itself pure, but do think there needs to be some
>structure and governance added to the contributing modules. Look at the
>benefit a tool like npm brings to the node community.
> I like the idea of sponsorship, vetting and a community vote.  I, as
>sure many would be, am willing to offer support and time to working
>through how to set this up and helping with the implementation if it is
>decided to pursue some solution.
> I hope these views are taken in the sprit they are made, to make this
>incredible system even better along with the surrounding eco-system.
>
>Thanks,
>Brian
>
>
>On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 9:36 PM, P. Taylor Goetz
><ptgoetz@gmail.com<mailto:ptgoetz@gmail.com><mailto:ptgoetz@gmail.com>>
>wrote:
>Just to be clear (and play a little Devil¹s advocate :) ), I¹m not
>suggesting that whatever a ³contrib² project/module/subproject might
>become, be a clearinghouse for anything Storm-related.
>
>I see it as something that is well-vetted by the Storm community, subject
>to PPMC review, vote, etc. Entry would require community review, PPMC
>review, and in some cases ASF IP clearance/legal review. Anything added
>would require some level of commitment from the PPMC/committers to
>provide some level of support.
>
>In other words, nothing ³willy-nilly².
>
>One option could be that any module added require (X > 0)  number of
>committers to volunteer as ³sponsor²s for the module, and commit to
>maintaining it.
>
>That being said, I don¹t see storm-kafka being any different from
>anything else that provides integration points for Storm.
>
>-Taylor
>
>
>On Feb 25, 2014, at 7:53 PM, Nathan Marz
><nathan@nathanmarz.com<mailto:nathan@nathanmarz.com><mailto:nathan@nathanm
>arz.com>> wrote:
>
>I'm only +1 for pulling in storm-kafka and updating it. Other projects
>put these contrib modules in a "contrib" folder and keep them managed as
>completely separate codebases. As it's not actually a "module" necessary
>for Storm, there's an argument there for doing it that way rather than
>via the multi-module route.
>
>
>On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:39 PM, Milinda Pathirage
><mpathira@umail.iu.edu<mailto:mpathira@umail.iu.edu><mailto:mpathira@umail
>.iu.edu>> wrote:
>Hi Taylor,
>
>I'm +1 for pulling these external libraries into Apache codebase. This
>will certainly benifit Strom community. I also like to contribute to
>this process.
>
>Thanks
>Milinda
>
>On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:28 PM, P. Taylor Goetz
><ptgoetz@gmail.com<mailto:ptgoetz@gmail.com><mailto:ptgoetz@gmail.com>>
>wrote:
>A while back I opened STORM-206 [1] to capture ideas for pulling in
>"contrib" modules to the Apache codebase.
>
>In the past, we had the storm-contrib github project [2] which
>subsequently
>got broken up into individual projects hosted on the stormprocessor github
>group [3] and elsewhere.
>
>The problem with this approach is that in certain cases it led to code rot
>(modules not being updated in step with Storm's API), fragmentation
>(multiple similar modules with the same name), and confusion.
>
>A good example of this is the storm-kafka module [4], since it is a widely
>used component. Because storm-contrib wasn't being tagged in github, a lot
>of users had trouble reconciling with which versions of storm it was
>compatible. Some users built off specific commit hashes, some forked, and
>a
>few even pushed custom builds to repositories such as clojars. With kafka
>0.8 now available, there are two main storm-kafka projects, the original
>(compatible with kafka 0.7) and an updated fork [5] (compatible with kafka
>0.8).
>
>My intention is not to find fault in any way, but rather to point out the
>resulting pain, and work toward a better solution.
>
>I think it would be beneficial to the Storm user community to have certain
>commonly used modules like storm-kafka brought into the Apache Storm
>project. Another benefit worth considering is the licensing/legal
>oversight
>that the ASF provides, which is important to many users.
>
>If this is something we want to do, then the big question becomes what
>sort
>governance process needs to be established to ensure that such things are
>properly maintained.
>
>Some random thoughts, questions, etc. that jump to mind include:
>
>What to call these things: "contib modules", "connectors", "integration
>modules", etc.?
>Build integration: I imagine they would be a multi-module submodule of the
>main maven build. Probably turned off by default and enabled by a maven
>profile.
>Governance: Have one or more committer volunteers responsible for
>maintenance, merging patches, etc.? Proposal process for pulling new
>modules?
>
>
>I look forward to hearing others' opinions.
>
>- Taylor
>
>
>[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/STORM-206
>[2] https://github.com/nathanmarz/storm-contrib
>[3] https://github.com/stormprocessor
>[4] https://github.com/nathanmarz/storm-contrib/tree/master/storm-kafka
>[5] https://github.com/wurstmeister/storm-kafka-0.8-plus
>
>
>
>--
>Milinda Pathirage
>
>PhD Student | Research Assistant
>School of Informatics and Computing | Data to Insight Center
>Indiana University
>
>twitter: milindalakmal
>skype: milinda.pathirage
>blog: http://milinda.pathirage.org<http://milinda.pathirage.org/>
>
>
>
>--
>Twitter: @nathanmarz
>http://nathanmarz.com<http://nathanmarz.com/>
>



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