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Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2011 19:56:28 +0100
From: Terry Ellison <Terry@ellisons.org.uk>
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To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
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OK, Rob, I now understand your point.  I will do as you request.  
However, it seems to me that by making this request you are creating an 
interesting catch-22:  I far as I can see there are two facets to this 
invitation.

    * *Sufficiency*.  These forums are closed because this gives the
      attendees freedom to discuss matters (such as individual poster
      behaviour) that shouldn't be discussed on a public forum.  We only
      invite "trusted" forum members to join these lists.  (That's is
      that they've demonstrated that they are responsible and have built
      up a body of "karma" with their forum contributions.)  I would
      have thought that being elected a committer could reasonably be
      deemed to be sufficient to show such trust.

    * *Necessity*.  You seem to want to discuss policy on the governance
      of the forums from within this DL or ooo-private.  I also recall
      some of your previous comments which indicate that these people
      (who have committed hundreds if not thousands of hours to
      supporting this service) do not merit committer status unless they
      have a wider engagement in the project, and they are therefore
      excluded from any ooo-private discussions.  Yet, it seems to me
      that it is entirely reasonable that anyone contributing to this
      discussion should at least have a working knowledge of how the
      forums operate in practice and currently govern themselves.  So I
      do think it necessary as well.

Hence in my view, this invitation makes eminent sense.  Is your counter 
proposal that only committers who are entirely ignorant of how the 
forums work should decided on their future governance and existence?  I 
feel that most Europeans would regard this as a typical American 
attitude to the rest of the world ;)

Regards
Terry

On 01/09/11 19:05, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 1:56 PM, Terry Ellison<Terry@ellisons.org.uk>  wrote:
>> Rob,
>>
>> This was a polite invitation to committers if they wanted to see how the
>> forums operate.  I will take your -1 to mean that you don't want to take me
>> up on the offer.
>>
> Let me be clearer then.  The -1 is to your proposal to invite
> committers and assign them permissions to a private forum.  This is
> not a technical objection, but a policy objection.  Please do not take
> further steps on this until we can get a Mentor to weigh in on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Rob
>
>> Your reply is a valid topic but entirely off *this* topic.  Unfortunately
>> since this is a DL and not a forum, I can't move this to new topic which
>> relates to your point.  However, if you care to make this on another thread
>> on the topic you discuss, then I will reply there.
>>
>> Can we try to maintain some thread discipline, please?
>>
>> Regards
>> Terry
>>
>> On 01/09/11 17:59, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Terry Ellison<Terry@ellisons.org.uk>
>>>   wrote:
>>>> Anyone is able to join the OOo Community forums, but we also have a
>>>> number
>>>> of closed forums use for internal management of the site.  If any
>>>> committers
>>>> would like to have access to these, then just make sure that they've got
>>>> an
>>>> active account on the current production service (not
>>>> ooo-forums.apache.org)
>>>> and email me me from it requesting access.  I will then raise you to
>>>> "volunteer" so that you can see the main closed forums.
>>>>
>>> -1
>>>
>>> I propose that we eliminate any such "internal management" forums...<snip>
>>>
>>


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