Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 251BB7D4E for ; Sun, 4 Sep 2011 23:54:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 61345 invoked by uid 500); 4 Sep 2011 23:54:45 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-incubator-ooo-dev-archive@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 61133 invoked by uid 500); 4 Sep 2011 23:54:44 -0000 Mailing-List: contact ooo-dev-help@incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 61125 invoked by uid 99); 4 Sep 2011 23:54:44 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:54:44 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of dennis.hamilton@acm.org designates 75.98.160.130 as permitted sender) Received: from [75.98.160.130] (HELO a2s15.a2hosting.com) (75.98.160.130) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:54:37 +0000 Received: from 63-226-210-225.tukw.qwest.net ([63.226.210.225] helo=Astraendo) by a2s15.a2hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1R0MW1-0000IN-5k for ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; Sun, 04 Sep 2011 19:54:17 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" To: References: <4E5FB6F0.2060504@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FC756.5010106@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FD55C.40207@ellisons.org.uk> <4E5FE090.2020506@apache.org> <014801cc68e5$d5fd5290$81f7f7b0$@acm.org> <1314911707.1938.55.camel@sybil> <4E60193C.4090304@shanecurcuru.org> <4E606C19.40005@ellisons.org.uk>

In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:55:31 -0700 Organization: NuovoDoc Message-ID: <013901cc6b5e$228a5250$679ef6f0$@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQJ2ZDHcluxnJ4ftvhD0h4u91LrbYwFYJKmSAxxY2KgBP7gW7ACB/6RMAn30IBsBGs3rcgGeK4+MAiQha0sCDtnKUgII6nQVAa5sn5QCnT+EawHIKqBcATLWaecCVV2fAAEv1tGyAdSEX38BlklmAAMW7Zf0Aa2QITYByTbfgZK2XP3w Content-Language: en-us X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - a2s15.a2hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - incubator.apache.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - acm.org As far as I can tell and there are up to three NL forums that require = special karma to visit, as TerryE has already explained. =20 At least one of them is different for each language group. That is the = Forum Issues forum that is per language. The title on the English Forums = is "EN-Forum Issues: A place for us to cover issues about the forum = overall."=20 Another forum consists of deleted posts. It is kind of a quarantine for = deleted posts and TerryE already described what happens there. I assume = this is per language also, since you need to understand the language to = review deleted posts. This is a common situation in forums that I have = belonged to. I have had enough karma on other forum sites to see how = this works (though my brief impression is that the OO.o Forums are = superior in how they are handled). There is another English Admin Forum entitled Server-Site Governance, at = least on the English-language Forum. There might be only one of these: = the brief description is "User Services Forums (NL Administrators and = Moderators)". =20 I see that there is a vote occurring on that last forum this very minute = to make that last forum visible to the public but read only. It strikes me that the folks there are friendly, wary of outsiders, and = apprehensive about the Apache situation and the future of the forums as = they know them. This is on the general forums too, but I am grateful = that a lot of that among the administrators and moderators they have = been worrying privately. My sense is that everyone there, at all = levels, want the openoffice.org site and communities to thrive. = Disruption is hard on everyone. Generosity is called for. [An interesting suggestion there: That PPMC folk come over, register on = the site, and observe all we want.] We could probably find out more about this by asking them. Over there. = Just as Apache folk visited the LibreOffice lists when the incubator was = being proposed, and after as incubation was approved and there were = still discussions over there that was worthwhile for Apache folk to = contribute to. =20 (Of course, many of us on ooo-dev and the PPMC also hang out on = LibreOffice and TDF lists and are also developers there. I mean folks = who have senior positions with Apache.) - Dennis, being reminded that computing is an empirical science, and so = is community building -----Original Message----- From: Christian Grobmeier [mailto:grobmeier@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 08:07 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums >> If behavior discussions are going to occur at all, it's probably >> better that they happen in public rather than there be the feeling of >> a secret faceless committee to which users can neither respond nor >> appeal. The latter can lead to discontent. >> > > Exactly. And where do users go to complain about moderators? ooo-dev@ ;-) ooo-private@ [ ... ] > > I think a jolt of transparency will do us much good. We need to learn > to collaborate well with each other openly. We need to be moderate in > moderation. If we think we need 30 private moderation forums and 30 > moderators in order to do user support, then that is a warning sign > crying out that we're doing the wrong thing. I think 30 are really to much. But one might be OK. One question: how much moderation is actually happening? And why? Is it really users behavior? In fact I can't imagine 30 boards are necessary for only keeping trolls out. If possible, some stats would be fine to have a better understanding of the issue. > Like I asked before, if we had zero private moderator forums, what bad > thing would happen? Why can we replace secret tribunals with open, > peer pressure and leadership by example? Really, is the situation so worse that "secret tribunals" is a matching term? (I really don't know, its not a rethoric question). I am all for openess don't get me wrong. The other mail today from Terry showed me there something strange going on. People simply want to use the tools they have used before. They want to speak their language. I think this should be possible. Reducing the "tribunal" factor to a minimum is a very good thing. I just don't want to read of some moderators discussing my grandmoms behavior in public. > > -Rob > >> Don >> > --=20 http://www.grobmeier.de