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From: "Dennis E. Hamilton" <dennis.hamilton@acm.org>
To: <ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: RE: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 16:29:02 -0700
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Or, to put quite simply, Oracle cannot grant to Apache the right to =
claim the OpenOffice.org forums. =20

The terms of use that are currently there on each forum  provide a quite =
permissive license by which ASF could treat the content as third-party =
material.  However, my sense of the ASF philosophy is that we at Apache =
never take anything that the source does not want us to have, regardless =
of it being legal to do so.=20

I believe Apache provision of hosting and preservation/migration of =
OpenOffice.org Forum operation is of mutual benefit.  But we should =
maybe do a little diplomatic sucking up as our earnest deposit toward =
mutual benefit?

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: drew [mailto:drew@baseanswers.com]=20
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 11:41
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums

On Sun, 2011-09-04 at 18:29 +0100, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 12:35:05 -0400
> Rob Weir <robweir@apache.org> wrote:
> > This is really easy to resolve:
> >=20
> > 1) Discussions on evolving forum policies and rules must occur on
> > ooo-dev.  These are tantamount to proposals, and they are subject to
> > Apache Way decision making, just like any other part of the project.
> > If I wanted to suggest a different editing policy for the community
> > wiki, or a new moderation policy for ooo-users, I would be slapped
> > down if I raised it on ooo-private.  The transparency principle
> > applies equally to the forums.
>=20
> Discussions behind the scene are not proposals; they emerge into one =
or more consensuses, which are then considered as proposals and a =
selection made. I doubt there will be much objection to this.
> >=20
> > 2) Non-confidential, day-to-day operations of the forum should occur
> > in a publicly-readable forum, or on a new public mailing list. I'd =
let
> > the forum volunteers decide which.
>=20
> Such a publicly readable form is the Forum, which is openly =
accessible; to post to it requires a User to choose a Username and to =
indicate his OS and version of OOo or OOo fork,
> >=20
> > 3) Private discussions on confidential matters, including your
> > grandmother, occur either on ooo-private or on a private forum that
> > echos its posts to ooo-private.  Again, I'd let the forum volunteers
> > decide which.
>=20
> These occur on three dedicated channels as I outlined earlier; the =
offer is there to allow interested Apache personel access to them =
immediately.  A more public (even if still private mechanism) can be =
worked out, such as that they can be automatically echoed to a =
monitorong list.  Much of the discussion is merely administrative and =
may increase the load on such monitoring lists.
>=20
> I will echo this posting to the private OOo channels - perhaps we are =
now getting somewhere?
>=20
>=20

Hello List,

Wearing a three cornered hat: Founding member of the OpenOffice.org User
Community Forums, Administrator of the English language forum, member in
good standing of the Volunteer Group.


First - the current owners of the OpenOffice.org User Community Forums,
the instance of the phpBB softwaree and the content within the attached
database is owned by the group of individuals known as the Volunteer
Group within the forum. This group currently consists of 75 individuals.
This ownership was an integral part of the agreement made between the
founding members and management at Sun Micro-Systems. The arrangement
was materially no different from a standard hosting contract with a
commercial provider, with certain branding considerations required in
lieu of cash payments.

Second - The OpenOffie.org User Community Forums had no formal
relationship whatsoever with the OpenOffice.org Community Council. It
had no representation on the council and indeed members of the forum, by
virtue of their relationship with the forums, where never offered a vote
for any officers of the council.

Third - The domain name user.services.openoffice.org was the property of
Sun-Microsystems, later transfered to Oracle Corporation and use of said
URL was at the discretion of the owner.

Fourth - The owners of the OpenOffice.org User Community Forums have an
explicit right to relocate the services provided at
user.services.openoffice.org, along with all content generated by the
site, to a new location solely at the discretion of the Volunteer Group.

---------

Taking the hat off.

--------


It was my personal hope that this event would also, finally, allow the
forums to become an actual part of the main project and ownership
transfered from the volunteer group to Apache OpenOffice - still is, but
the road to get there I'm afraid is just a tad bumpier now.=20

Respectfully,

Drew Jensen