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From Pedro Giffuni <>
Subject Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache project
Date Thu, 08 Sep 2011 06:30:44 GMT

 I have huge respect for the forums and the efforts the admins
 of this systems do to make OO cool. I admit that I don't
 understand well how they can fit in the Apache's structure
 (afaict it has never been done) so I do share a lot of the
 doubts that Rob has: if the forums are to be supported
 officially the admins will represent the project just like
 any other member do. This involves accountabilty and a
 general connection to the project.

 On the other hand, forums seem to be somwhere between
 a newsgroup and an IRC channel: to operate correctly,
 forums require a level of flexibilty and independence that
 were a lot easier to provide by SUN than a strong rule-
 based organization like ASF.

 Both sides are difficult to concile (I won't even try).
 but I think blaming one side will not get us near a solution.


 On Thu, 08 Sep 2011 05:23:05 +0000, toki <> 
> Hash: SHA1
> On 09/06/2011 12:10 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>> You can't blame Rob for a decision that Terry took on his own.
> Whilst it was Terry's choice, Rob's attitude was quite literally :
> "I don't care about how the forum used to be run, or why it was run 
> that
> way. You will do this, or else, where the or else is to treat it as 
> if
> it was a mailing list."
> What works for running a mailing list does not work for running a web
> forum. What works for running a web forum does not work for running a
> mailing list.
> And like any good web forum admin, Terry baulked at doing things that
> won't work on a web forum.
>> no secret he had problems with doing things the Apache Way
> There are major differences between the corporate culture of Sun, and
> that of the Apache Foundation. This is in addition to the gulf 
> between
> the volunteers for OOo and the Sun employees. At least Sun could 
> respect
> the linguistic and socio-cultural differences of its various user
> communities.
> The Apache Foundation appears hell bent on inflicting its own white
> bread cookie cutter mould on everything, without giving a thought's
> consideration as to why the policies and practices evolved to what 
> they are.
> jonathon
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