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From Rob Weir <>
Subject Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date Sun, 04 Sep 2011 16:35:05 GMT
On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Christian Grobmeier
<> wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Donald Whytock <> wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 9:37 AM, Christian Grobmeier <> wrote:
>>> Do you really want to discuss a users behavior in public?
>>> Wow, I really don't want to do that. I strongly believe that only a
>>> few people would discuss another guys behavior in public.
>> It happens.  In fact it happened here, on this list, yesterday.  There
>> was some pretty excessive vitriol, open and in public.  And yet it
>> seemed to work into more mature and rational discussion today.
>> If behavior discussions are going to occur at all, it's probably
>> better that they happen in public rather than there be the feeling of
>> a secret faceless committee to which users can neither respond nor
>> appeal.  The latter can lead to discontent.
> It might be different to discuss roughly at the dev forums were most
> people know each other than in a public message boards were even my
> grandmother might participate. At this project I heard the term "end
> users" very often; I don't think you can use the same rules of heavy
> geek-discussion for end users of OpenOffice.

I agree.  But I think that just means that support forum
admins/moderators bring such discussions over here, to the project
mailing lists.  Honestly, if a forum volunteer is not already on this
list, understanding what we are doing and how Apache project works and
how the code base is developing, etc., then they will have a very
difficult time fairly representing the project to the users.  I don't
think the project benefits if support volunteers are detached from the
primary project discussion list.  And we all are at a disadvantage if
the support volunteers are not contributing to this list.  The same
arguments against fragmenting the project into dozens of mailing
lists, also apply here.  Just as we would not create a separate
ooo-support-operations-discuss mailing list, we should not encourage
the same from happening via a forum.  The fact that support operations
are also discussed in private only makes this fragmentation more

This is really easy to resolve:

1) Discussions on evolving forum policies and rules must occur on
ooo-dev.  These are tantamount to proposals, and they are subject to
Apache Way decision making, just like any other part of the project.
If I wanted to suggest a different editing policy for the community
wiki, or a new moderation policy for ooo-users, I would be slapped
down if I raised it on ooo-private.  The transparency principle
applies equally to the forums.

2) Non-confidential, day-to-day operations of the forum should occur
in a publicly-readable forum, or on a new public mailing list. I'd let
the forum volunteers decide which.

3) Private discussions on confidential matters, including your
grandmother, occur either on ooo-private or on a private forum that
echos its posts to ooo-private.  Again, I'd let the forum volunteers
decide which.


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