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From Matt Richards <>
Subject Re: Real names (was: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache project)
Date Tue, 06 Sep 2011 17:30:11 GMT
I for one can agree with this. There are some communities where I personally
want to separate my real identity from my online identity for privacy
reasons. Usually its because I don't trust that particular community or that
community for historical reasons knows me by my online identity instead of
my real name.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Rob Weir <> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <> wrote:
> > I think this thread was split off in response to Eric wanting to know
> Hagar's real name.  It doesn't matter what that question was about.
> >
> > There was, however, a nice post and new thread providing an interesting
> situation with pseudonyms being used by folks who have registered iCLAs and
> who might become committers, etc.  It can be arranged that the real name
> (required on an iCLA) need not be how a person is identified anywhere here.
>  No one is insisting that RGB ES (<>) go by any other
> identification here.
> >
> > But if RGB happened to have an iCLA on file and wanted to contribute some
> code, there would need to be a way to match up the persona identification in
> the list post with the iCLA on file.  Likewise, if RGB were a member of the
> PPMC, and a vote was conducted here on this list, the PPMC would need a way
> to confirm that to be a binding (and non-duplicated) vote from a PPMC
> member.
> >
> > (Note: Committers have Apache User Name/IDs, so it works really well to
> use those for "official business."  But even those don't have to have
> anything to do with real names.  You could look up the user name on the
> public list and the pseudonym could appear there.  My Apache User Name/ID is
> "orcmid" and I do use here from time to time.  I have my
> real name show on posts, too, but I don't *have* to do that.)
> >
> > Whether or not the use of real names, or a real name being known somehow,
> improves behavior is an interesting question but the places where a real
> name is *necessary* isn't related to that, it seems to me.
> >
> I think the implication is this.  If I use my real name, then my
> behavior is public, along with what people say about me.  Since I,
> like most people, use my real name with my employer and on my CV, that
> ties everything together.  Someone who does not do that can separate
> their real-world identity from their online identity.  This might
> allow a politically oppressed dissident to participate on the list.
> But it also allows someone to flame with impunity.  If they lose their
> reputation, they can just come back tomorrow with another pseudonym.
> >  - Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RGB ES []
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 07:11
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Real names (was: What is needed for Support Forums to be
> fully integrated into the Apache project)
> >
> > 2011/9/6 Shane Curcuru <>:
> >> There are a lot of differences between how Apache projects are managed
> and
> >> how OOo services have been managed in the past.  This is one where the
> >> actual policies seem to be very similar; however the normal practice is
> very
> >> different.
> >>
> >> ----
> >> At Apache, anyone who signs an iCLA [1] must provide the ASF with their
> real
> >> name.  This is to ensure that the ASF knows specifically who is signing
> the
> >> document.  Signing an iCLA is a required before anyone can become a
> voted in
> >> as a committer.
> >>
> >> When you sign an iCLA, you may optionally specify a "Public name", which
> is
> >> what Apache displays as public information associated with your Apache
> id
> >> (if/when you get one).  Thus by policy, Apache allows contributors to
> >> maintain a public pseudonym, although officially Apache does need to
> know
> >> (privately) your real name.
> >
> > That's OK.
> >
> >> In terms of actual practice, please note that very few committers at
> Apache
> >> use a public pseudonym like this.  More than 98% of our committers use
> their
> >> real name, and most of them sign their real names in most emails.
> >
> > That's maybe a cultural difference, not necessarily a need to "hide" a
> > "real identity". In my case, I do not feel that my real name, selected
> > by my parents forty two years ago represent me better that my (i.e.,
> > /selected by me/) usual pseudonym: I chose to be RGB when I put my
> > signature to a drawing more than twenty five years ago for several
> > reasons that identify me as an unique person. In a sense I'm more
> > "RGB" than I can be "Ricardo".
> > I understand that in order to be part of an organization you need to
> > provide a "legal" name, but for communication I do not think it is
> > important, as far as you can identify the person without doubts. When
> > I write my opinions, does it matter if my surname have Latin, mid
> > east, African, Saxon roots...? Does it matter my gender? I think the
> > answer for both questions is no.
> >
> >> In terms of flames and spam, this generally works fine for Apache
> >> committers.  In terms of community, this allows your reputation to build
> >> associated to you, as your real name, and not to an alias.
> >>
> >> ----
> >> I think there are several subtle differences here between the typical
> Apache
> >> community and what (I think) much of the OOo forum community is:
> >>
> >> - The OOo users are typically end-users, and not developers.  Thus I can
> >> imagine (but don't know; I'm just guessing) that the users more
> frequently
> >> resort to flames and ad hominem attacks.
> >
> > I think you are wrong here. In almost two years since I'm admin on the
> > Spanish forums, I needed to suspend a user only once and that was for
> > a month only.
> > Forum users a quite calm: most of the time they ask their questions,
> > get an answer and then disappear.
> >
> >> - OOo forum users and admins prefer forums.  I'd guess (but again; I
> don't
> >> know) that as a whole they don't have as efficient spam traps and mail
> >> filters as most Apache committers do.  Thus I could see how it would be
> more
> >> difficult to manage flames coming to your personal account there,
> whereas in
> >> the majority of Apache communities it's not a significant issue (in
> part,
> >> because the community as a whole works to correct this kind of
> behavior).
> >
> > You are oversimplifying here. I have very good and efficient spam
> > filters and tag system working on my email account (as a matter of
> > facts I use this email address for six different mailing lists without
> > problems), but after several decades of using almost every
> > communication technology available I still prefer forums. Why? I do
> > not think that's important (I do not want just another forum vs.
> > mailing list holy war). Let's say that /for me/ and for many people
> > (your mileage may vary) forums are better. No more, no less.
> >
> >> - The OOo end-user community seems less tightly coupled with the project
> >> future than a typical Apache user community is.  Many Apache users could
> and
> >> might submit a bugzilla entry after seeking help for a while on a users@
> >> list.  It seems that most OOo end-users would not do this, they really
> only
> >> want the answer to their question and no more.
> >
> > The typical OOo user is a very-very end user with normal to low (and
> > even /very/ low) computer skills. I think that's very different from
> > the typical user of other Apache projects: I cannot be sure but I
> > think that users of other Apache products have a medium to hight
> > computer level.
> >
> >> It would be helpful to get a better understanding here, on ooo-dev@, of
> how
> >> the forums really work, and how much information actually does (or
> should)
> >> come back from the forum to the project developers.
> >
> > Usually when a bug is discovered during forum interaction, if the user
> > do not report the bug by itself a volunteer interested on the issue
> > will report it. Afterwards the volunteer will keep an eye on the
> > issue.
> > Maybe an intermediate level were volunteers can talk directly with
> > developers could be useful... but I'm not so sure: on the issue
> > tracker it is already possible to follow a discussion.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ricardo
> >
> >


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