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From Terry Ellison <>
Subject Re: Administrative controls / management of the mailing lists
Date Thu, 01 Sep 2011 22:02:11 GMT

The short answer is IMHO: that's correct -- No.  As to the long one: ...

Oracle stopped its major funding of OOo as a mainstream product for 
sound commercial reasons -- though this has resulted in personal 
consequences for a lot of people who worked on OOo and who no longer 
have a job.  Now we've now got some services running unmanned, because 
the people have gone.

We were lucky as far as the OOo wiki was concerned in that I was already 
providing expert support to the Oracle guy who ran the system, and I was 
able to step in with his active cooperation before he "left the building".

I believe that Oracle that wants to ensure a "bumpless" transfer to the 
Apache project wherever possible, and it will find the necessary 
mechanisms to grant project members who have the right technical skills 
and track record to take over these systems.  Our main problem is that 
this list currently seems to contains one name -- mine, though there are 
others who could potentially step into this gap: for example Raphael, 
Kay and Drew.  However we are all already working to our limits.  Maybe 
we just need a cloning machine :(

Quite honestly -- and I can only speak personally -- at the moment I 
feel that I am caught between a rock and a hard place.  My work is time 
consuming and the skills are different to the mainstream C++ trained OOo 
developer, but they are also different to a pure sysAdmin.  In some ways 
you need to be an expert in *both* these worlds and to be able to 
integrate this expertise.  I am not talking about enthusiastic newbie 
volunteers; I am talking about hacks who have done this so many times 
that it's routine.  Again this only my personal experience, but I feel 
that Apache is unwelcoming to newcomers and this seems to be an endemic 
culture, albeit strongly advocated by a few individuals.  It is 
intolerant and often outrightly hostile to domains of expertise outside 
its comfort area -- even though these may be more relevant to the work 
and Apache's wider mission.  In short I am being asked to work long 
hours on technically demanding tasks in a dysfunctional environment.  If 
I was being paid to do what I am doing now, then I would be seriously 
thinking about changing jobs -- and this is from a guy who spent 32 
years working with the same company working to get to its top technical 
tier -- and also one who is now doing this work pro-bono.

So we do have the means in terms of Oracle enabling, but we, the 
project, don't have the resources / expertise to step up to this. If I 
am still here in 3 months and this is still an outstanding issue, then 
I'll try to sort it out.

Regards Terry

On 01/09/11 20:59, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Um, so your answer is no?
> You do not have any means to deal with that mailing list issue on the live
> Any suggestions?
>   - Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terry Ellison []
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 12:04
> Subject: Administrative controls / management of the mailing lists
> Dennis,
> As we've discussed previously there is almost a "religious" split
> between those that work on forums and those that work on MLs and DLs.
> Very few of those involved in the governance of the forums would have
> anything to do with DLs/MLs and v.v.
> However, what you are really talking about is a configuration issue of
> the mail forwarder.  It's more an application issue if we get control of
> the application support.  I have exactly the same issues with my mail
> responder that is built into the forums.
>> Terry, do you know if those administrative controls extend to the
>> management of the mailing lists, such as the ones for
>>  (apparently at
>> <>).
>> Do you have any information on how we can empower someone to block a
>> bad echo?
>> Every post to the more-heavily-populated lists there generates three
>> notices Then we need to find the
>> subscribers whose e-mail addresses are landing at the responding site
>> and disable those.
>> I also fear that there is nothing in our planned work to preserve
>> these portions of the domain.
>> - Dennis
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Terry Ellison []
>> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2011 09:47
>> Subject: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
>> Anyone is able to join the OOo Community forums, but we also have a
>> number of closed forums use for internal management of the site. If any
>> committers would like to have access to these, then just make sure that
>> they've got an active account on the current production service (not
>> and email me me from it requesting access. I
>> will then raise you to "volunteer" so that you can see the main closed
>> forums.
>> Please note: the forum rules apply to all and all volunteers are
>> expected to follow them -- including me or any other committer.
>> Regards
>> Terr

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