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From Daniel Shahaf <>
Subject Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:24:48 GMT
Rob Weir wrote on Fri, Sep 02, 2011 at 08:14:31 -0400:
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 5:28 AM, Christian Grobmeier <> wrote:
> >> Shane there are some intrinsic differences between a DL and posting into a
> >> forum. However, reading this entire thread I get the feeling that some of
> >> the current practices on the forum may be unacceptable to Apache / the
> >> project.  However in this case, I would suggest that:
> >>
> >> 1) we adopt an evolutionary approach -- that is get the forums moved and
> >> then make any changes.
> >>
> >> 2) we constitute a small group with forum experience *and* ASF experience do
> >> a specific task of reviewing current practices against Apache norms and
> >> practices, then draft some change guidelines for feeding to the forums, and
> >> an impact assessment of their implementation.  We can then feed them into
> >> the ooo-dev list for comment and if needed vote on their adoption.
> >>
> >
> > Actually - reading this thread - I think running an support forum of
> > this kind is something we haven't done before at apache (or at least
> > to my knowledge). That being said we probably need to rethink of what
> > we have done in the past.
> >
> >> This would address such issue as:
> >> (i) Do we allow the forum moderators use the forum itself to discuss forum
> >> management or must this be done on ooo-dev
> >
> > In tradition, all ASF related matters - code, users etc - are
> > discussed in public on the dev list. The user lists has been utilized
> > to do support to users. Now there is an forum in addtiion to a list.
> > The credo is:"if it happened on list, it didn't happen". Ok, the board
> > is not on list - so it didn't happen. I think management of the board
> > can also happen on the board as Terry suggested (i think he did).
> >
> That logic doesn't really work.  The fact that it is not a mailing
> list (and therefore "it didn't happen") is not magical permission to
> do things in a project that would otherwise not be allowed.  For
> example, could we create a forum for project-level fundraising, for
> paying developers, for developing code not under ALv2 and for selling
> CD's of AOOo, and argue that this is OK, because, "the board is not on
> list - so it didn't happen"?

You're taking the phrase too literally.

"If it didn't happen on-list, it didn't happen" means: things that
didn't happen on-list cannot constitute a PMC decision.  You can't vote
for a release or a committer on any place other than the list.

If the PMC were to meet at a convention center and hand out pamphlets
claiming that the foundation rips off third world countries in order to
manufacture feathers, the Board would probably step in.

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