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From "Dennis E. Hamilton" <>
Subject RE: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums
Date Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:55:31 GMT
As far as I can tell and there are up to three NL forums that require special karma to visit,
as TerryE has already explained.  

At least one of them is different for each language group.  That is the Forum Issues forum
that is per language. The title on the English Forums is "EN-Forum Issues: A place for us
to cover issues about the forum overall." 

Another forum consists of deleted posts.  It is kind of a quarantine for deleted posts and
TerryE already described what happens there.  I assume this is per language also, since you
need to understand the language to review deleted posts.  This is a common situation in forums
that I have belonged to.  I have had enough karma on other forum sites to see how this works
(though my brief impression is that the OO.o Forums are superior in how they are handled).

There is another English Admin Forum entitled Server-Site Governance, at least on the English-language
Forum.  There might be only one of these: the brief description is "User Services Forums (NL
Administrators and Moderators)".  

I see that there is a vote occurring on that last forum this very minute to make that last
forum visible to the public but read only.

It strikes me that the folks there are friendly, wary of outsiders, and apprehensive about
the Apache situation and the future of the forums as they know them.  This is on the general
forums too, but I am grateful that a lot of that among the administrators and moderators they
have been worrying privately.  My sense is that everyone there, at all levels, want the
site and communities to thrive.  Disruption is hard on everyone.  Generosity is called for.

[An interesting suggestion there: That PPMC folk come over, register on the site, and observe
all we want.]

We could probably find out more about this by asking them.  Over there.  Just as Apache folk
visited the LibreOffice lists when the incubator was being proposed, and after as incubation
was approved and there were still discussions over there that was worthwhile for Apache folk
to contribute to.  

(Of course, many of us on ooo-dev and the PPMC also hang out on LibreOffice and TDF lists
and are also developers there.  I mean folks who have senior positions with Apache.)

 - Dennis, being reminded that computing is an empirical science, and so is community building

-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Grobmeier [] 
Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 08:07
Subject: Re: An invitation to committers to the OOo Community Forums

>> If behavior discussions are going to occur at all, it's probably
>> better that they happen in public rather than there be the feeling of
>> a secret faceless committee to which users can neither respond nor
>> appeal.  The latter can lead to discontent.
> Exactly.  And where do users go to complain about moderators?

ooo-dev@ ;-)

[ ... ]
> I think a jolt of transparency will do us much good.  We need to learn
> to collaborate well with each other openly. We need to be moderate in
> moderation.  If we think we need 30 private moderation forums and 30
> moderators in order to do user support, then that is a warning sign
> crying out that we're doing the wrong thing.

I think 30 are really to much. But one might be OK.
One question: how much moderation is actually happening? And why? Is
it really users behavior? In fact I can't imagine 30 boards are
necessary for only keeping trolls out.

If possible, some stats would be fine to have a better understanding
of the issue.

> Like I asked before, if we had zero private moderator forums, what bad
> thing would happen?  Why can we replace secret tribunals with open,
> peer pressure and leadership by example?

Really, is the situation so worse that "secret tribunals" is a
matching term? (I really don't know, its not a rethoric question).
I am all for openess don't get me wrong. The other mail today from
Terry showed me there something strange going on. People simply want
to use the tools they have used before. They want to speak their
language. I think this should be possible. Reducing the "tribunal"
factor to a minimum is a very good thing. I just don't want to read of
some moderators discussing my grandmoms behavior in public.

> -Rob
>> Don


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