From dev-return-21994-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@netbeans.apache.org Thu Jun 10 13:53:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mxout1-he-de.apache.org (mxout1-he-de.apache.org [95.216.194.37]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42E9718037A for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 15:53:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.apache.org (mailroute1-lw-us.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mxout1-he-de.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mxout1-he-de.apache.org) with SMTP id CE24C6235E for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 13:53:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 13829 invoked by uid 500); 10 Jun 2021 13:53:08 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@netbeans.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@netbeans.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@netbeans.apache.org Received: (qmail 13652 invoked by uid 99); 10 Jun 2021 13:53:06 -0000 Received: from spamproc1-he-de.apache.org (HELO spamproc1-he-de.apache.org) (116.203.196.100) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 13:53:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamproc1-he-de.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamproc1-he-de.apache.org) with ESMTP id 14F461FF495 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 13:53:05 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamproc1-he-de.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.251 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.251 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.2, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamproc1-he-de.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-ec2-va.apache.org ([116.203.227.195]) by localhost (spamproc1-he-de.apache.org [116.203.196.100]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8J_ubvAqRwTT for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 13:53:02 +0000 (UTC) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=209.85.218.49; helo=mail-ej1-f49.google.com; envelope-from=arcturusbootes2@gmail.com; receiver= Received: from mail-ej1-f49.google.com (mail-ej1-f49.google.com [209.85.218.49]) by mx1-ec2-va.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-ec2-va.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 5BF94BC48F for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 13:53:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ej1-f49.google.com with SMTP id my49so27621683ejc.7 for ; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=d37hJzZ1FIC4cxusJS08rIcKcczMPOh0I3U+/3DxWyw=; b=ZEThE+0IzQd+Tm9Vj66qjPo3APXtvDYRzEnH0j9j+J/eePo5Di5L/AIP8PlqiuQD6f 6X6jDDWO1sP4sZQ7j94YLCcu4HBShkSrU+Bkn46Fd5T2MHuA7WOasxiVr2Z/OFQCX+fl nHKzfN278IZh9CSOUo6DkGyXVAhMP4q1GNdzMlP0P+Dk5ZrPgyiP5bvdNoHLWQBymvmU 3PmEU87Jfr1aYsU32XZwYKrMEyrcbR4dnFZzQl1oVJyJRB9hmeGM6fmHAgaPmtqXgSzg p4NaBaGNwIX6/a05Fanp2UanwdAYNUKHal08vuMb1tACsWjTOlsI2bV/YNJ8BndKDVbL wKyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=d37hJzZ1FIC4cxusJS08rIcKcczMPOh0I3U+/3DxWyw=; b=JRM1eiXM6G9wL8KZQeABQ7ydxFNnn+HNMmQa6/Z/O5F3RQMQYBkgdzKvkBV83lWgvP NFWq5eWSY+uQfoJH9NF+JN5JFDfIZ8Yqjd4Va10uts/RElcqZwzGvs+hrZtlFePv5aJp 8qdBkheeyy/PBpMW1CSIETOsRu2rduDiwPVUPa+8BuKQbPfBkYk5fr1wUIidv+3bjYgp cnOxkqLm/CdmwXtAFm7IcCWZsU83rciLh68AlyzuNg5t1MqBSJk37XRIFlXak5/M+apb 0+xW5H1C36zwf8FDpGyXumR4ujwYqQHqxXyktKM2nSVG9HHoeHLxo6Dig6PLWdnF2RF/ cmtw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533slamIiEXfBnbFplcHldZRMniI0pJcsg9WFmUT1gRykMyxAIoj xKLmNoXW8DfoxRJhm97/T6gWSwmakAepdNTmYahVWA0lPi4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1e5n0+cYUscMXDvDFR+Q8YQCXR1Rfa+q07+IZ3S852886U8IAymVaCLMvzSj0GIiujjVrHiztxksXldRpKoQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:7302:: with SMTP id di2mr4514117ejc.409.1623333181216; Thu, 10 Jun 2021 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Arcturus Bootes Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:52:25 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Status of JavaHelp To: dev@netbeans.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e5b2005c469b5d5" --0000000000009e5b2005c469b5d5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Eric, It's been some time you had a response to the questions you raised here. I noticed that with 12.4 the link to help now just opens the online documentation. In terms of outstanding issues regarding this topic I didn't see anything specifically mentioning the plan going forward. Do you know if there are any documented plans for the future of built in help? If the answer is that NetBeans is no longer looking to include built-in help and you have to use the online docs then that's alright; just keen to know where NetBeans stands on the matter. Regarding an RPC NetBeans platform application I'm working on (since NB 7 and now using NB 12.0), I wanted to ideally keep in step with what NetBeans is doing so I wanted to plan a way forward that would be compatible with what NetBeans does ideally. Presently I am still adding the jhall jar and modified org-netbeans-modules-javahelp.jar back in to retain the built in help system. However I am now exploring options. Thank you. On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 01:18, Eric Bresie wrote: > Having not drilled down too much yet and thinking from a system perspective > (and hope to get this out to the list for others as well)... > > Where in the codebase is/would the help functionality be located? And > where does the help content reside (is there a standardize location) > > So assume there are a few parts to the help capabilities: > (1) Ability to display help materials in a user friendly format > (2) The help material may be context sensitive help (i.e. when in a given > context, bring up > (3) Be compatible with existing local documentation > (4) Be able to reference to remote documentation (sites) where applicable > (5) Potential usage within the IDE and/or IDE modules > (6) Potential usage by Netbeans platform applications > > What formats are presently supported (I.e. javadoc, html, text, markdown, > etc.)? And does the existing interface allow alternative help formats like > this effectively? > > So basically swap out the JavaHelp interface with a HelpView/Viewer > interface of some Type (maybe something like an HTML Viewer) component here > in some way? > > Eric > > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 1:29 AM Tim Boudreau wrote: > > > Funny, I was recently adding help to an old NetBeans-based image/vector > > editor I've been toying with updating, and the idea of using Javadoc > simply > > made me ill, so I wrote the beginnings of a help system from scratch, > where > > help is generated in code annotations in Markdown, which an Antlr parser > > and some Swing magic render directly to the screen without ever > translating > > to HTML. It's a work in progress, as I have another project I'm trying > to > > wrap up. > > > > Many years ago, when Sun open sourced it, I had the joy of converting the > > code to Ant and making it open-source-friendly. It was old, > > long-in-the-tooth and rather vile then - at best, it's an ugly (the > classic > > Swing "border buildup" issues) clone of 1990's era Windows Help. It is > > long past time for it to die. It's one of those things nobody actually > > likes, but nobody actually wants to write a replacement for either. > > > > I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to write something that can consume > the > > existing input files, but something simple, modern and that either uses > the > > user's web browser, or at any rate doesn't demand in-application HTML > > rendering, and doesn't require HTML as its markup, would be a good idea. > > > > -Tim > > > -- > Eric Bresie > ebresie@gmail.com > --0000000000009e5b2005c469b5d5--