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From Caleb Welton <>
Subject Re: Graduation concerns
Date Thu, 05 Nov 2015 18:01:57 GMT
Thanks Ted.

Echoing some of the followup discussion we had over on the HAWQ mailing
list Roman suggested doing something similar to what Groovy did, i.e.
incorporate a maturity model document into our code and review it around
how we can continue to make improvements and move the project towards
graduation.  Here's the example from Groovy:

Examples of project maturity include the points Ted makes, e.g.:
   "All "important" discussions happen asynchronously in written form on
the project’s main communications channel. Offline, face-to-face or private
discussions that affect the project are also documented on that channel."

The main thing from my perspective is that we are making a conscious
decision to embrace the Apache way, that we are honest with our assessment
of where we are at, and actively work on moving in the right direction.  It
isn't necessarily easy, but the value of the mechanism is to help foster an
larger inclusive community.


On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Ted Dunning <> wrote:
> Also note that projects that evolve out of commercial projects often have
> very hard time moving design decisions to a mailing. It is much more
> natural to continue using well known communication paths.
> The point, however, of moving to Apache is, well, moving to Apache.  That
> involves more than just moving the semi-colons into an Apache git
> It also means moving many customs and traditions. This can be hard.
> This can be even harder because it is even harder to see the need or even
> the lack because it really hasn't been any other way for most of the
> participants.
> Reading the threads that Roman cites can be very helpful if you try to
> think about why each participant says what they say. What motive do they
> have in their head that makes what they say make sense?
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Roman Shaposhnik <> wrote:
> > To echo Caleb's post to the HAWQ ML:
> >
> > In case you haven't been watching the Apache general list there is an
> > interesting thread on the Apache Sentry project and their graduation
> > incubator.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lots of discussion on what is required from a community growth
> > for an incubator.  Good lessons to think about as we are trying to build
> > our own community around Geode and MADlib.
> >
> > You will also see me heavily advocating Apache Maturity model on
> > that thread. This is something I'd really like to institute in all of
> > the projects
> > I happen to mentor to a point of having a rolling document inside of a
> > source
> > tree a'la Groovy:
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >

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