Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public-internal@cust-asf2.ponee.io Received: from cust-asf.ponee.io (cust-asf.ponee.io [163.172.22.183]) by cust-asf2.ponee.io (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FCF200C3B for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:43:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) id 859E1160B8D; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:43:03 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by cust-asf.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 0BF2C160B7F for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 16:43:01 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 65711 invoked by uid 500); 18 Mar 2017 15:43:01 -0000 Mailing-List: contact log4php-dev-help@logging.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: "Log4PHP Dev" List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list log4php-dev@logging.apache.org Received: (qmail 65257 invoked by uid 99); 18 Mar 2017 15:42:58 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:42:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 16FD2C1017; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:42:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.38 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.38 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2NhQGPW09eq6; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:42:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lf0-f44.google.com (mail-lf0-f44.google.com [209.85.215.44]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 252A25F297; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:42:55 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lf0-f44.google.com with SMTP id a6so42634024lfa.0; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:42:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xOH/zBNGgvIQz410QHi0NfnnDpGWUNctSnT5vXdYkcE=; b=UzlWJn+EXY6c4paHJ7QR7JVo2yHYTku+rOUI8WkO96xPfydKn1YFWxjh34kk8x5YXc EeZDJsL4yb+dC5Z0JV9q+u0DrasMVCr32sfBt1yCk96hEkeKPHEh+qoPMmryY95f5ogS j2hFgqKJzg9uDKLbI4voCgdhDd4ruu/7QC99KmrppYFeQx/RkRVv6DquMJ+mP68YPt3j Qn85OwDLdM5xtkOiWE9F0YSc4iJJMbBtLamVaAGllAKGZGwqDfycvRVkSODBqgWhnSLy qjDkhaL5KvZxz3eGVSA1WGr2u08urZMmxJZcja8NiczZnW09bn7PWILW1MgvyqsGK5Or vMmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xOH/zBNGgvIQz410QHi0NfnnDpGWUNctSnT5vXdYkcE=; b=iW136GKPWZ7s8iH5qop1j+M15jmFYoRmt6+KAZjJ7Zvb9DOHO0DQkds+blloMlvJOQ SUl1yvksuxstIOMho/QTotiQk/ozsALynYLb6H93t/DzHIIWLdFSS3U742Q5l+iXgKQh bcIrHQrR7IrezDIL48Pr1YyKklI3XBnAOS8jJzGXnL/Lg6cyN6TPw5T1sZsu760QMZgr 5hfoXTbJkXNpx+JpaTK/LghtzCHrVQONJSxBZrn6ilJ37GS2KFkG7n5hy1kErDHDn79V MgVfg0VrHrY2VLcV3+awFM1RW/o1ae1YL3Se2pIdrWtq97PeffJr5DGx2hGHjQWQ7Vzt lE9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H37y1fL8n9l+uUSm3swwiR+CoYHmr6QBKG7QHHxdvUlGXfrob+aSWi6y2I4bEMM/eAfhsGBoF+BCTjxIA== X-Received: by 10.25.233.27 with SMTP id g27mr5588582lfh.133.1489851774327; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.20.233 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2017 08:42:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <60ae0fb4-16d7-d59a-519e-0664a9cac77f@gmail.com> <3406CF90-67D2-4743-9077-F91F05564F95@dslextreme.com> <621E98A2-C2B6-4FE8-83B0-4F4B1F144F8F@dslextreme.com> <5C3289A8-CDCA-4B29-B4AD-6BD7F56D4ABD@dslextreme.com> <7C703EEA-24C1-494D-B004-35A90E7FF21B@dslextreme.com> From: Matt Sicker Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 10:42:53 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@ To: Log4NET Dev Cc: Logging PMC , Log4CXX Dev , Log4J Developers List , log4php-dev@logging.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113c26aec6e3ba054b03258f archived-at: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 15:43:03 -0000 --001a113c26aec6e3ba054b03258f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got this response from Gavin: Hi [~jvz] Sorry but I think I'm going to push back on that last request. Merging the lists - no problem Merging all the subscribers - no problem Creating bounce messages directing people to use the merged target list - no problem People will know in advance this merger is going to take place, and if they forget I think it'll take only one or two bounce messages to get the hint. If you are :- a) Happy with that - pick a date this can be done , let all lists users know this is happening and the date then let me know. b) Not Happy with that - ping this ticket again and we'll escalate further. Thanks On 16 March 2017 at 22:23, Matt Sicker wrote: > Oh, I didn't realise I had a response on how to handle that. Let me follo= w > up with infra. > > On 16 March 2017 at 21:46, Ralph Goers wrote= : > >> Is there any follow-up to this? >> >> Ralph >> >> On Mar 12, 2017, at 9:30 PM, Ralph Goers >> wrote: >> >> 1. That seems fine to me. >> 2. Is it possible to do both? I like the idea of annoying the sender but >> still allowing the email to be sent. It would cool if it could even add >> [list] to the start of the subject line. >> 3. This is the main thing that needs to happen. >> >> Ralph >> >> >> >> On Mar 12, 2017, at 7:49 PM, Matt Sicker wrote: >> >> Some things: >> >> 1. Archives won't be merged. >> 2. Infra suggests it might be a better idea to have the old email >> addresses respond with a canned reply saying that the lists have moved o= ver >> to dev@, though they can set it up all as aliases if we prefer. >> 3. Current subscribers from all dev lists would be automatically >> subscribed to the combined list. >> >> So, use aliases or have the old addresses bounce back and inform senders >> to use the new list? >> >> On 12 March 2017 at 18:31, Matt Sicker wrote: >> >>> Created a request, not sure if it's public: https://issues.apache. >>> org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/INFRA-13651 >>> >>> On 12 March 2017 at 17:11, Ralph Goers >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Yes, >>>> >>>> If you could send the request to infra I would appreciate it. >>>> >>>> Ralph >>>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Matt Sicker wrote: >>>> >>>> The vote has been open for 5 days now. Based on the tallies and >>>> discussions, it sounds like we'd like to merge the dev lists but keep = the >>>> user lists as is. Shall we move forward with combining them now? >>>> >>>> On 10 March 2017 at 12:27, Dominik Psenner wrote: >>>> >>>>> Total agreement. >>>>> >>>>> On 10 Mar 2017 6:26 p.m., "Ralph Goers" >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two responses >>>>>> dropped the other lists. This is a horrible way to have discussions= that >>>>>> affect all the sub projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ralph >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I'd love to see more unified configurations in all the subprojects. >>>>>> Gary mentioned that as an idea for log4cxx as that would make it use= ful for >>>>>> his use case where they're using both Java and C++ in various projec= ts. >>>>>> >>>>>> While the programming languages in use here (Java, .NET, PHP, and >>>>>> C++) aren't really compatible with each other, having similar archit= ectures >>>>>> and plugin systems could help a bit in this regard. Having more incl= usive >>>>>> conversations about this would be great. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10 March 2017 at 04:29, Mikael St=C3=A5ldal >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that a vast majority of our users only uses one of the >>>>>>> languages we support, and therefore only are interested in one of t= he >>>>>>> subprojects. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Dominik Psenner < >>>>>>> dpsenner@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging >>>>>>>> projects to become very similar in their usage, starting with the = same or a >>>>>>>> very similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one A= pache >>>>>>>> Logging specification and several Apache Logging specification >>>>>>>> implementations in the form of Apache Logging subprojects. That me= ans all >>>>>>>> the devs for all subprojects have to talk more. To me this is a go= od >>>>>>>> reasons to merge the dev mailing lists. Further I don't see why th= e same >>>>>>>> use case should not apply to the user mailing lists, too. Those ma= iling >>>>>>>> lists see very low traffic but all of them need a larger audience.= Just >>>>>>>> quoting the last few messages of two user mailing lists I follow: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago, the topic before >>>>>>>> that about two weeks ago >>>>>>>> log4net-user: the last topic came in 24 hours ago and the topic >>>>>>>> before that a month ago >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that migh= t >>>>>>>> be of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these a= re just >>>>>>>> release announcements. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn'= t >>>>>>>> cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we shoul= d merge >>>>>>>> the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all de= vs to >>>>>>>> subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't know >>>>>>>> what that list is for). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes >>>>>>>>> are =E2=80=9Cbinding=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t think that changes= much however. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user=E2=80= =99s lists >>>>>>>>> separate isn=E2=80=99t likely to be an issue as most of the thing= s that would need >>>>>>>>> to be discussed would be on a dev list anyway. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists >>>>>>>>> so that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying = to >>>>>>>>> summarize the current state of the vote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> dev@loggi= ng.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker: +1 >>>>>>>>> Ralph Goers: +1 >>>>>>>>> Stefan Bodewig: +1 >>>>>>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1 >>>>>>>>> Thorsten Sch=C3=B6ning: -0 >>>>>>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0 >>>>>>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1 >>>>>>>>> Remko Popma: +1 >>>>>>>>> Mikael St=C3=A5ldal: +0 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Totals so far: >>>>>>>>> +1: 5 >>>>>>>>> +0: 1 >>>>>>>>> -0: 2 >>>>>>>>> -1: 1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general= @ -> user@logging.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker: -1 >>>>>>>>> Ralph Goers: +1 >>>>>>>>> Stefan Bodewig: -1 >>>>>>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1 >>>>>>>>> Thorsten Sch=C3=B6ning: -0 >>>>>>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0 >>>>>>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1 >>>>>>>>> Remko Popma: +1 >>>>>>>>> Mikael St=C3=A5ldal: -1 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Totals so far: >>>>>>>>> +1: 3 >>>>>>>>> +0: 0 >>>>>>>>> -0: 2 >>>>>>>>> -1: 4 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2017-03-08 05:20, Matt Sicker wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed >>>>>>>>> to half of them less than five minutes ago. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services >>>>>>>>> mailing lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> >>>>>>>>> dev@logging.apache.org >>>>>>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general= @ >>>>>>>>> -> user@logging.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliase= s >>>>>>>>> for the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails.= To >>>>>>>>> distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [java] >>>>>>>>> [net] >>>>>>>>> [cxx] >>>>>>>>> [php] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should >>>>>>>>> help in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Voting: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists! >>>>>>>>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much. >>>>>>>>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it. >>>>>>>>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 >>>>>>>>> binding, no -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. T= he vote >>>>>>>>> will be open for at least 72 hours. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Matt Sicker >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Mikael St=C3=A5ldal* >>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com >>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Matt Sicker >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Matt Sicker >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Matt Sicker >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Matt Sicker >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Matt Sicker > --=20 Matt Sicker --001a113c26aec6e3ba054b03258f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I got this response from Gavin:

Hi [~jvz] Sorry but I think I'm going to push= back on that last request.

Merging the lists - = no problem
Merging all the subscribers - no problem
Creating bounce messages directin= g people to use the merged target list - no problem

People will know in advance this merger is going to take place, and if t= hey forget I think it'll take only one or two bounce messages to get th= e hint.

If you are :-

a= ) Happy with that - pick a date this can be done , let all lists users know= this is happening and the date then let me know.
b) Not Happy with that - ping = this ticket again and we'll escalate further.

Thanks

On 16 March 2017 at 22:23, Matt Sicker <<= a href=3D"mailto:boards@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">boards@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
Oh, I d= idn't realise I had a response on how to handle that. Let me follow up = with infra.

On 16 March 2017 at 21:46, Ralph Goers <ra= lph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Is there any follow-up to th= is? =C2=A0

Ralph

On Mar 12, 2= 017, at 9:30 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:

1. That seems fine to me.
2. Is it possible to do both? I like the idea of annoying the sende= r but still allowing the email to be sent. It would cool if it could even a= dd [list] to the start of the subject line.
3. This is the main t= hing that needs to happen.

Ralph



On Mar 12, 2017, = at 7:49 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:

So= me things:

1. Archives won't be merged.
2.= Infra suggests it might be a better idea to have the old email addresses r= espond with a canned reply saying that the lists have moved over to dev@, t= hough they can set it up all as aliases if we prefer.
3. Current = subscribers from all dev lists would be automatically subscribed to the com= bined list.

So, use aliases or have the old addres= ses bounce back and inform senders to use the new list?

On 12 March 2017 at 18:31= , Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
Created a request, not sure if it's publ= ic:=C2=A0https://issues.apache.org/jira/se= rvicedesk/customer/portal/1/INFRA-13651

=
On 12 March 2017 at 17:11, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Yes,

If you could send the request to infra I would appreciate it.

Ralph

On Mar 12, 2017, at= 1:13 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:

The vote has been open for 5 days now= . Based on the tallies and discussions, it sounds like we'd like to mer= ge the dev lists but keep the user lists as is. Shall we move forward with = combining them now?

On 10 March 2017 at 12:27, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com> wrote:
Tot= al agreement.

On 10 Mar 2017 = 6:26 p.m., "Ralph Goers" <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:
This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two re= sponses dropped the other lists.=C2=A0 This is a horrible way to have discu= ssions that affect all the sub projects.

Ralph


On Mar 10, 2017, a= t 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd love to see more unified configurations in all the subprojects. Ga= ry mentioned that as an idea for log4cxx as that would make it useful for h= is use case where they're using both Java and C++ in various projects.<= div>
While the programming languages in use here (Java, .NET,= PHP, and C++) aren't really compatible with each other, having similar= architectures and plugin systems could help a bit in this regard. Having m= ore inclusive conversations about this would be great.

On 10 March 2017 at 04:29, Mika= el St=C3=A5ldal=C2=A0<mikael.staldal@magine.com>=C2=A0wrote:
I think that a vast majority of our users only uses one o= f the languages we support, and therefore only are interested in one of the= subprojects.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Dominik Psenner=C2=A0<dpsenner@gmail.com>=C2=A0wrote= :

We had o= nce the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects to become ver= y similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very similar configur= ation. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging specification an= d several Apache Logging specification implementations in the form of Apach= e Logging subprojects. That means all the devs for all subprojects have to = talk more. To me this is a good reasons to merge the dev mailing lists. Fur= ther I don't see why the same use case should not apply to the user mai= ling lists, too. Those mailing lists see very low traffic but all of them n= eed a larger audience. Just quoting the last few messages of two user maili= ng lists I follow:

log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago,= the topic before that about two weeks ago
log4net-user: the last topic = came in 24 hours ago and the topic before that a month ago

Cheers=

On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote:
We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might = be of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just r= elease announcements.

Ralph

On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wro= te:

Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it d= oesn't cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we sho= uld merge the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all d= evs to subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don'= t know what that list is for).

On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers=C2= =A0<ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>=C2=A0wrote:
You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes= are =E2=80=9Cbinding=E2=80=9D. I don=E2=80=99t think that changes much how= ever.

From a PMC perspective I have to say that ke= eping the user=E2=80=99s lists separate isn=E2=80=99t likely to be an issue= as most of the things that would need to be discussed would be on a dev li= st anyway.

Ralph

On Mar 9, 2017, at= 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com> wrote:

The votes are way too scattered over the d= ifferent mailing lists so that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Ther= efore I'm trying to summarize the current state of the vote:

lo=
g4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> dev@logging.apache.org
<= p>Matt Sicker: +1
Ralph Goers: +1
Stefan Bodewig: +1
Sven Rautenve= rg: -1
Thorsten Sch=C3=B6ning: -0
Ivan Habunek: -0
Dominik Psenner= : +1
Remko Popma: +1
Mikael St=C3=A5ldal: +0

Totals so far:
= +1: 5
+0: 1
-0: 2
-1: 1

log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4ne=
t-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ -> user@logging.apache.org

Matt Sicker: -1
Ralph Goers: +1
Stefan Bodewig: -1
Sven Rautenverg: -1
Thorsten Sch=C3=B6ning: -0
Ivan Habunek: -0
Dominik Psenner: +1
Remko Popma: +1
Mikael St=C3=A5ldal: -1

Totals so far:
+1: 3
+0: 0
-0: 2
-1: 4
Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing.

On 2017-03-08 05:20, Ma= tt Sicker wrote:
I may = be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to half of them= less than five minutes ago.

This is a vote to merge the= various Apache Logging Services mailing lists. The proposal is to combine = them as follows:

log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net= -dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->=C2=A0dev@logging.apache.org
l= og4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->=C2=A0user@logging.apache.org

commits@ and = private@ remain the same as before.

The proposal w= ould also suggest that the old emails become aliases for the combined email= names so as not to lose any future emails. To distinguish between projects= , a subject tag can be added such as:

[java]
=
[net]
[cxx]
[php]

Though = I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should help in gaini= ng the attention of the appropriate audience.

Voti= ng:

+1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!
= +0: Go ahead, don't care that much.
-0: Don't like it, bu= t not vetoing it.
-1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea= !

This vote follows the same "lazy consensus&= quot; (at least 3 +1 binding, no -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and= whatnot. The vote will be open for at least 72 hours.

--=C2=A0
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>





--=C2= =A0
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>





--=C2=A0
=
=3D"MagineTV"=C2=A0
Mikael St=C3=A5ldal
Senior software developer=C2=A0

Magine TV
mikael.staldal@magi= ne.com=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
Grev T= uregatan 3 =C2=A0|=C2=A0114 46 Stockholm, Sweden=C2=A0= =C2=A0|=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0www.magine.com=C2=A0

Privileged and/or Confidential Informa= tion may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicat= ed in this message
(or responsible for delivery of the message to such a= person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,= =C2=A0
you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by r= eply email. =C2=A0=C2=A0



--=C2=A0
Matt Sicker <bo= ards@gmail.com>




--
=
= Matt Sicker <board= s@gmail.com>




--
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>



--
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>





= --
Matt Sick= er <boards@gmail.c= om>


--
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>=
--001a113c26aec6e3ba054b03258f--