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From Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@
Date Sun, 12 Mar 2017 23:31:52 GMT
Created a request, not sure if it's public:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/servicedesk/customer/portal/1/INFRA-13651

On 12 March 2017 at 17:11, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:

> Yes,
>
> If you could send the request to infra I would appreciate it.
>
> Ralph
>
> On Mar 12, 2017, at 1:13 PM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The vote has been open for 5 days now. Based on the tallies and
> discussions, it sounds like we'd like to merge the dev lists but keep the
> user lists as is. Shall we move forward with combining them now?
>
> On 10 March 2017 at 12:27, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Total agreement.
>>
>> On 10 Mar 2017 6:26 p.m., "Ralph Goers" <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two responses
>>> dropped the other lists.  This is a horrible way to have discussions that
>>> affect all the sub projects.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd love to see more unified configurations in all the subprojects. Gary
>>> mentioned that as an idea for log4cxx as that would make it useful for his
>>> use case where they're using both Java and C++ in various projects.
>>>
>>> While the programming languages in use here (Java, .NET, PHP, and C++)
>>> aren't really compatible with each other, having similar architectures and
>>> plugin systems could help a bit in this regard. Having more inclusive
>>> conversations about this would be great.
>>>
>>> On 10 March 2017 at 04:29, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that a vast majority of our users only uses one of the
>>>> languages we support, and therefore only are interested in one of the
>>>> subprojects.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects
>>>>> to become very similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very
>>>>> similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging
>>>>> specification and several Apache Logging specification implementations
in
>>>>> the form of Apache Logging subprojects. That means all the devs for all
>>>>> subprojects have to talk more. To me this is a good reasons to merge
the
>>>>> dev mailing lists. Further I don't see why the same use case should not
>>>>> apply to the user mailing lists, too. Those mailing lists see very low
>>>>> traffic but all of them need a larger audience. Just quoting the last
few
>>>>> messages of two user mailing lists I follow:
>>>>>
>>>>> log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago, the topic before that
>>>>> about two weeks ago
>>>>> log4net-user: the last topic came in 24 hours ago and the topic before
>>>>> that a month ago
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might be
>>>>> of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just
>>>>> release announcements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't
>>>>> cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we should merge
>>>>> the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all devs
to
>>>>> subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't know
>>>>> what that list is for).
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes are
>>>>>> “binding”. I don’t think that changes much however.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user’s lists
>>>>>> separate isn’t likely to be an issue as most of the things that
would need
>>>>>> to be discussed would be on a dev list anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ralph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists
so
>>>>>> that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying to
summarize
>>>>>> the current state of the vote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> dev@logging.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt Sicker: +1
>>>>>> Ralph Goers: +1
>>>>>> Stefan Bodewig: +1
>>>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1
>>>>>> Thorsten Schöning: -0
>>>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0
>>>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1
>>>>>> Remko Popma: +1
>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal: +0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Totals so far:
>>>>>> +1: 5
>>>>>> +0: 1
>>>>>> -0: 2
>>>>>> -1: 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@
-> user@logging.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Matt Sicker: -1
>>>>>> Ralph Goers: +1
>>>>>> Stefan Bodewig: -1
>>>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1
>>>>>> Thorsten Schöning: -0
>>>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0
>>>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1
>>>>>> Remko Popma: +1
>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal: -1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Totals so far:
>>>>>> +1: 3
>>>>>> +0: 0
>>>>>> -0: 2
>>>>>> -1: 4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-03-08 05:20, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed
to
>>>>>> half of them less than five minutes ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing
>>>>>> lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->
>>>>>> dev@logging.apache.org
>>>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@
->
>>>>>>  user@logging.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliases
>>>>>> for the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails.
To
>>>>>> distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [java]
>>>>>> [net]
>>>>>> [cxx]
>>>>>> [php]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should
help
>>>>>> in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Voting:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!
>>>>>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much.
>>>>>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it.
>>>>>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 binding,
>>>>>> no -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will
be
>>>>>> open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>
>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>
>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>>>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>>>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>
>
>


-- 
Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>

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