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From Dominik Psenner <dpsen...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Discuss][VOTE] Combine the project user and dev mailing lists into user@ and dev@
Date Fri, 10 Mar 2017 18:27:38 GMT
Total agreement.

On 10 Mar 2017 6:26 p.m., "Ralph Goers" <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com> wrote:

> This is exactly why we need one dev list. These last two responses dropped
> the other lists.  This is a horrible way to have discussions that affect
> all the sub projects.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd love to see more unified configurations in all the subprojects. Gary
> mentioned that as an idea for log4cxx as that would make it useful for his
> use case where they're using both Java and C++ in various projects.
>
> While the programming languages in use here (Java, .NET, PHP, and C++)
> aren't really compatible with each other, having similar architectures and
> plugin systems could help a bit in this regard. Having more inclusive
> conversations about this would be great.
>
> On 10 March 2017 at 04:29, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think that a vast majority of our users only uses one of the languages
>> we support, and therefore only are interested in one of the subprojects.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 11:23 AM, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com> w
>> rote:
>>
>>> We had once the discussion that we wanted all Apache Logging projects to
>>> become very similar in their usage, starting with the same or a very
>>> similar configuration. Given that we should aim towards one Apache Logging
>>> specification and several Apache Logging specification implementations in
>>> the form of Apache Logging subprojects. That means all the devs for all
>>> subprojects have to talk more. To me this is a good reasons to merge the
>>> dev mailing lists. Further I don't see why the same use case should not
>>> apply to the user mailing lists, too. Those mailing lists see very low
>>> traffic but all of them need a larger audience. Just quoting the last few
>>> messages of two user mailing lists I follow:
>>>
>>> log4j-user: the last topic came in a week ago, the topic before that
>>> about two weeks ago
>>> log4net-user: the last topic came in 24 hours ago and the topic before
>>> that a month ago
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> On 2017-03-09 19:24, Ralph Goers wrote:
>>>
>>> We use general as mainly an announcement list for topics that might be
>>> of general interest to all logging projects. Generally, these are just
>>> release announcements.
>>>
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, I agree that the user lists can remain separate as it doesn't
>>> cause any issues currently. The main idea here is whether we should merge
>>> the dev lists into one, or if we need a common dev list for all devs to
>>> subscribe to (general@ doesn't sound appropriate, but I don't know what
>>> that list is for).
>>>
>>> On 9 March 2017 at 10:26, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You should note that while we consider all votes only PMC votes are
>>>> “binding”. I don’t think that changes much however.
>>>>
>>>> From a PMC perspective I have to say that keeping the user’s lists
>>>> separate isn’t likely to be an issue as most of the things that would need
>>>> to be discussed would be on a dev list anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dominik Psenner <dpsenner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The votes are way too scattered over the different mailing lists so
>>>> that I didn't even find my own vote. ;-) Therefore I'm trying to summarize
>>>> the current state of the vote:
>>>>
>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ -> dev@logging.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Matt Sicker: +1
>>>> Ralph Goers: +1
>>>> Stefan Bodewig: +1
>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1
>>>> Thorsten Schöning: -0
>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0
>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1
>>>> Remko Popma: +1
>>>> Mikael Ståldal: +0
>>>>
>>>> Totals so far:
>>>> +1: 5
>>>> +0: 1
>>>> -0: 2
>>>> -1: 1
>>>>
>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->
user@logging.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Matt Sicker: -1
>>>> Ralph Goers: +1
>>>> Stefan Bodewig: -1
>>>> Sven Rautenverg: -1
>>>> Thorsten Schöning: -0
>>>> Ivan Habunek: -0
>>>> Dominik Psenner: +1
>>>> Remko Popma: +1
>>>> Mikael Ståldal: -1
>>>>
>>>> Totals so far:
>>>> +1: 3
>>>> +0: 0
>>>> -0: 2
>>>> -1: 4
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to anyone who's vote is missing.
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-03-08 05:20, Matt Sicker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I may be missing some mailing lists considering I just subscribed to
>>>> half of them less than five minutes ago.
>>>>
>>>> This is a vote to merge the various Apache Logging Services mailing
>>>> lists. The proposal is to combine them as follows:
>>>>
>>>> log4j-dev@, log4php-dev@, log4net-dev@, log4cxx-dev@ ->
>>>> dev@logging.apache.org
>>>> log4j-user@, log4php-user@, log4net-user@, log4cxx-user@, general@ ->
>>>> user@logging.apache.org
>>>>
>>>> commits@ and private@ remain the same as before.
>>>>
>>>> The proposal would also suggest that the old emails become aliases for
>>>> the combined email names so as not to lose any future emails. To
>>>> distinguish between projects, a subject tag can be added such as:
>>>>
>>>> [java]
>>>> [net]
>>>> [cxx]
>>>> [php]
>>>>
>>>> Though I wouldn't think such a tag is required, though it should help
>>>> in gaining the attention of the appropriate audience.
>>>>
>>>> Voting:
>>>>
>>>> +1: Yes, combine the mailing lists!
>>>> +0: Go ahead, don't care that much.
>>>> -0: Don't like it, but not vetoing it.
>>>> -1: No, don't do that! I have a better idea!
>>>>
>>>> This vote follows the same "lazy consensus" (at least 3 +1 binding, no
>>>> -1/vetoes) we use for general releases and whatnot. The vote will be open
>>>> for at least 72 hours.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: MagineTV]
>>
>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>> Senior software developer
>>
>> *Magine TV*
>> mikael.staldal@magine.com
>> Grev Turegatan 3  | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden  |   www.magine.com
>> <http://www.magine.com/>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Matt Sicker <boards@gmail.com>
>
>
>

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