Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@minotaur.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 8EAAF186FF for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:17:20 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 76588 invoked by uid 500); 13 Mar 2016 17:17:20 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-groovy-dev-archive@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 76548 invoked by uid 500); 13 Mar 2016 17:17:20 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@groovy.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@groovy.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@groovy.apache.org Received: (qmail 76537 invoked by uid 99); 13 Mar 2016 17:17:19 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:17:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 6BE8AC0C76 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:17:19 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.198 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.198 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9fpvMTynvUEk for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:17:17 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-lb0-f176.google.com (mail-lb0-f176.google.com [209.85.217.176]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id B7C955F2F2 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:17:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-lb0-f176.google.com with SMTP id k15so213231410lbg.0 for ; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:17:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=BcRTBEBiTq2pnJ8ZJMLmEkKpxVeOsBG3/PB0AAGTw60=; b=qx8h1KfukZC/FhR4YYB6hM7JbBQY2Ki3lEBnr9hSf1Zpi2C9Q0/D/IiUxQ6059sPBS toN1Qx40bBrNcNKYMh6y/VYLP3kP+EQhFh7CD2DUPjsXA/VBeO5OK9W+vFU/M7+88Ipm tE/l2snwteHNNY+Cn/pL2KMV6xRdju4xpM1Ozyf6GSZfl8DCUeYATyP28CKcHmZUGb4R dN1fUqCXFkC/AUxkgO1nyXXTnLZ/Fqsj/9mQ4iB+iguOSp8JJYBfyxOyPxfsOaTuAW5E bUVP3G8YNyLGjbyZcauCzaHUqo0ybBVzDf7HuGn1KoZUOj2sUVTakM6LT3sZIWOntbFa PuEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=BcRTBEBiTq2pnJ8ZJMLmEkKpxVeOsBG3/PB0AAGTw60=; b=KJ7NtLziyErblowRJB/Ep2qPY69fyB1bW5rNQsxpNKEYDmlWN/FOw4qO1mhkrB+vpE CacMrnc//V3g5WkdPSCyZ8jyVGvnTejssa9OxP7aOIy9m7HZlQrvY7EOlC1g6q1jsQxD fUxhKFbZzkILiTX3QNW7Bvw0ZwOdaTip7xcjapeJ1eau6cEJHc729iPDYVhKh0SotAi4 Bf8feve6/de6MH+MYwQvfebYm0K6ZOjjQLWuu0NYYPpfGh7pFpcHJRbIJfDc14TsCdE3 g/qUMNsGu9fpqqnEf+zqme6mrTg2T3f4OmxqS8ZfA5ylDD+FzRuKmcRypffrKUSUH3aN Atyw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLQ2QQiVKxxUH4nh/OPxEa1w7V0ZXfA3NiY7SMnfxLiORPcnPXVvjfCNhvys5M380wAYwocuLlGYjdshA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.5.7 with SMTP id 7mr5129615lff.132.1457889436082; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.112.142.38 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 10:17:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56DBFA6D.8030004@gmx.net> <96C5BE75-63F1-4895-825D-5CCCA0365540@cs.vassar.edu> Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 18:17:15 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Release 2.5 Beta? From: =?UTF-8?Q?C=C3=A9dric_Champeau?= To: dev@groovy.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ec114f5aca1052df155cf --001a113ec114f5aca1052df155cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The problem is how to get feedback if the feature is not documented? 2016-03-13 18:13 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge : > For a beta, I think it can be okay, but for the final release of 2.5, > documentation will be of course mandatory, and we can't release it withou= t > that documentation. As I often say, a feature which is not documented > doesn't exist! > > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Shil Sinha wrote: > >> I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when it's really that particular >>> feature which is in beta, and that we'll want users to test. Without >>> knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to be hard to have feed= back. >> >> >> Agreed, it would be strange to not have any documentation for the focal >> point of a release. Are there any external references which we could dir= ect >> users to? Not from within the repo itself, but when promoting the releas= e >> elsewhere e.g. Twitter. >> >> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau < >> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> So does everyone agree that we should release the beta even if it's >>> missing docs for macros? I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when i= t's >>> really that particular feature which is in beta, and that we'll want us= ers >>> to test. Without knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to be = hard >>> to have feedback. >>> >>> 2016-03-13 0:56 GMT+01:00 Suderman Keith : >>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Guillaume Laforge >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Let's go with mushroom, for a change :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 5:32 PM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau < >>>> cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-03-12 0:05 GMT+01:00 Nicholas Grealy : >>>>> >>>>>> Looks like it's just you and me, Pascal! >>>>>> >>>>>> Just some questions for the broader dev community: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Who can perform the release? - C=C3=A9dric looked like he singl= e >>>>>> handedly pushed out version 2.4.6 - can we ask him to prepare the= 2.5 beta >>>>>> release? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Until we've switched to a new release process, it's still easier if I >>>>> do it, yes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> - Is there anything outstanding for a 2.5 beta release? - >>>>>> Whoever's we're waiting on, can we get an update? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> There are lots of outstanding issues, that's why it's a beta. In >>>>> particular, the new (exciting!) macro stuff is not documented, nor th= e AST >>>>> matcher complete. It's a super nice feature that deserves polishing. = Plus, >>>>> there are some decisions to be made with regards to applying the glob= al >>>>> `macro` AST xform globally or not, in particular with groovy-all. We = can >>>>> solve this after the beta, for sure, but we need to think about it. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> - Do we need a VOTE thread for a beta release? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Yes, it's a release. We can call it "beta", "rc" or "mushroom", it's = a >>>>> release anyway :) >>>>> >>>>> Cheers! >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>> Nick >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 at 22:52 Nicholas Grealy >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 20:37 Pascal Schumacher >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> as far as I remember there was wide support for releasing a 2.5 >>>>>>>> beta in >>>>>>>> the "Release 2.4.6 and 2.5.0-beta?" discussion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The release announcement for 2.4.6 contained the sentence "... be >>>>>>>> prepared for a 2.5.0-beta release soon!". Tomorrow that will be tw= o >>>>>>>> weeks ago, so I think we should make some plans when we start the >>>>>>>> release vote and who will be able to serve as a release manager. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What do you think? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Pascal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Guillaume Laforge >>>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President >>>> Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet >>>> >>>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ >>>> Social: @glaforge / Google+ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> Research Associate >>>> Department of Computer Science >>>> Vassar College >>>> Poughkeepsie, NY >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > Guillaume Laforge > Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President > Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet > > Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ > Social: @glaforge / Google+ > > --001a113ec114f5aca1052df155cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The problem is how to get feedback if the feature is not d= ocumented?

2= 016-03-13 18:13 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge <glaforge@gmail.com>= :
For a beta, I t= hink it can be okay, but for the final release of 2.5, documentation will b= e of course mandatory, and we can't release it without that documentati= on. As I often say, a feature which is not documented doesn't exist!

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Shil Sinha <= shil.sinha@gmail.com> wrote:
= I think it's a bit of a problem, still, when it's really that parti= cular feature which is in beta, and that we'll want users to test. With= out knowing it's there and how to use it it's going to be hard to h= ave feedback.

Agreed, it woul= d be strange to not have any documentation for the focal point of a release= . Are there any external references which we could direct users to? Not fro= m within the repo itself, but when promoting the release elsewhere e.g. Twi= tter.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM, C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wrote:
So does everyone agree that we should release the = beta even if it's missing docs for macros? I think it's a bit of a = problem, still, when it's really that particular feature which is in be= ta, and that we'll want users to test. Without knowing it's there a= nd how to use it it's going to be hard to have feedback.

2016-03-13 0:56 = GMT+01:00 Suderman Keith <suderman@cs.vassar.edu>:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=
On Mar 12, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Guillaum= e Laforge <glafo= rge@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's go wi= th mushroom, for a change :-)

+1


On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 5:32 PM, = C=C3=A9dric Champeau <cedric.champeau@gmail.com> wro= te:


2016-03-12 0:05 GMT+01:00 N= icholas Grealy <nickgrealy@gmail.com>:
Looks like it's just you and me, = Pascal!

Just some questions for the broader dev co= mmunity:
  • Who can perform the r= elease? -=C2=A0C=C3=A9dric looked like he single handedly pushed out= version 2.4.6 - can we ask him to prepare the 2.5 beta release?

Until we've switched t= o a new release process, it's still easier if I do it, yes.
=
=C2=A0
  • Is there anything outstanding for a = 2.5 beta release? - Whoever's we're waiting on, can we get an updat= e?

There are = lots of outstanding issues, that's why it's a beta. In particular, = the new (exciting!) macro stuff is not documented, nor the AST matcher comp= lete. It's a super nice feature that deserves polishing. Plus, there ar= e some decisions to be made with regards to applying the global `macro` AST= xform globally or not, in particular with groovy-all. We can solve this af= ter the beta, for sure, but we need to think about it.=C2=A0

  • Do we need a VOTE thread for a beta release?<= /li>

Yes, it's a rele= ase. We can call it "beta", "rc" or "mushroom"= ;, it's a release anyway :)

Cheers!=C2=A0


    • Kind regards,
    Nick
On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 at 22:52 Ni= cholas Grealy <nickgrealy@gmail.com> wrote:
+1


On Sun, 6 Mar 2016 20:37 Pa= scal Schumacher <pascalschumacher@gmx.net> wrote:
Hello everybody,

as far as I remember there was wide support for releasing a 2.5 beta in
the "Release 2.4.6 and 2.5.0-beta?" discussion.

The release announcement for 2.4.6 contained the sentence "... be
prepared for a 2.5.0-beta release soon!". Tomorrow that will be two weeks ago, so I think we should make some plans when we start the
release vote and who will be able to serve as a release manager.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Pascal




--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-Pr= esident
Product Ninja & Advocate at Restlet

Blo= g:=C2=A0http://g= laforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge=C2=A0/ Google+
<= /div>

------------------------------
Research Associate
Department of C= omputer Science
Vassar College
Poughkeepsie, NY






--
=
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer &= ; PMC Vice-President
Product Ninja & Advocate at = Restlet

--001a113ec114f5aca1052df155cf--