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From Giovanni Lenzi <>
Date Fri, 18 Sep 2015 13:56:59 GMT
>> 8: database for the web!!!
> That I like
Glad you like it :)

> we can consider you as hostile against the CouchDB project and treat you

Your words are the only hostile things imho.. Anyway my post was much more
general and I was not asking of pushing Couchapps! But, even if actually
Smileupps can't contribute also with erlang code, I really hope in the
future we can afford to push some of our devs in the team too. So what I
was asking with my previous post was to not close the door to couchapps for
the future (e.g. by not mentioning or denying their usefulness). Is it

> CouchApp 2.0 ... I am still very eager to work on it, but RIGHT NOW, we
don’t have the resources as the project

I'm glad you say this. This reflects exactly our current position too :(
but I still hope in the future we can afford to work together on this.


2015-09-18 13:52 GMT+02:00 Jan Lehnardt <>:

> > 8: database for the web!!!
> That I like.
> No, it is exactly in line with the Apache Way, those who do the work get
> to decide where the direction is going. The Apache Way is decidedly NOT
> some folks who prettyplease want features, but don’t feel compelled to
> build what they want.
> > Also imho it's a wrong approach due to some considerations:
> > - active devs are active now... who knows until when? (and this is true
> for
> > you too and the VC chair)
> This is always true, I don’t see how this bears specially on this case.
> > - you don't know if tomorrow some erlang skilled couchapp lover won't get
> > in and start working on the app part (to say the truth some of them were
> > already active in the past, but they chose to left just because of
> > this/yours direction)
> In my last email I specifically suggested for such a person to step up and
> I’d welcome them wholeheartedly.
> > - you can't remove something that ALREADY exists which A LOT of people
> > like, use and have businesses on top, just because you and a few people
> > don't like it
> Watch me.
> > But above all:
> > - you can't erase what Couchdb has been, what it is actually and what it
> 1. We can always go in a new direction without erasing what it had been in
> the past. This happens all the time. And we’ve done it a bunch of times.
> CouchDB is so unique in what it does that it took us a couple of years
> collectively to understand what the nature of it is.
> 2. Of course I cannot erase what CouchDB COULD BE, but CouchDB can only be
> what people are working on, and nobody is working on CouchApps, so I’m
> going with a vision that is backed up by the technology we have and working
> on.
> * * *
> I repeat: You won’t hold the project ransom for something you want, if you
> are not prepared to do the hard work of making your vision a reality.
> * * *
> And as I’ve outlined a number of times, I have a pretty good idea of how
> the Couch/Appserver thing could look like in the future, and it’d be 10000%
> better than what CouchApp has ever been, and I am still very eager to work
> on it, but RIGHT NOW, we don’t have the resources as the project, and we
> should focus on the the thing that makes CouchDB RELEVANT in the current
> computing ecosystem, not what a bunch of far-out developers find
> interesting.
> All major platform vendors today (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple and
> Amazon) have a Backend-as-a-Service type offering with various degrees of
> sync/offline working.
> CouchDB + related projects are THE ONLY OPEN SOURCE alternative in this
> game, and it is a MASSIVE opportunity for us, not some esoteric way to do
> db/app-server stuff, that is hard to understand and that has (relatively)
> barely any users. We can make a SIGNIFICANT impact on the computing
> landscape of tomorrow, and I’m not interested in wasting that opportunity.
> Again, the project doesn’t have the resources to develop this further, and
> once we do, we have a fairly solid idea of how CouchApp 2.0 *could* look
> like, but RIGHT NOW, and probably EVEN THEN, this won’t be the major
> differentiator for a World Class Database System™.
> We are trying to put CouchDB on the path to success again, against fierce
> competition with hundreds of millions of dollars of VC funding that goes
> into engineering and marketing. We must focus on how we can make a
> difference with our limited resources in THAT CONTEXT, and an esoteric app
> programming platform is NOT it.
> * * *
> One final time:
> CouchDB is Open Source, if you want to see it going into a particularly
> direction, you are VERY welcome to do the work and push things forward and
> you will receive all the support you can imagine.
> If you continue to try to push the project into a different direction by
> not getting to work, but by just wasting the time of the people who spend
> their time on moving CouchDB forward, then we can consider you as hostile
> against the CouchDB project and treat you accordingly.
> This is isn’t just my personal opinion, I have the backup of the entire
> CouchDB PMC and the ASF Board. If you have any issues with that, I suggest
> you come to terms with the situation, or get to work as outlined above.
These kind of words are hostile, not surely my words!

> Best
> Jan
> --
> >> We need constructive ideas
> >
> > I picked up options, spread among previous posts. There are 10 of them:
> >
> > 1. Data where you need it.
> > 2. Restful freedom.
> > 3. The database that replicates.
> > 4. Sync. Shard. REST.
> > 5. Keeps data closer.
> > 6. Data wherever you need it.
> > 7. Data that sync.
> >
> > Two more, that are app-related, are dropped, also I dropped my own
> > proposal, it was the weakest (
> >
> > #1 and #2 are equal to Jan‘s list.
> >
> > ermouth
> --
> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:

Giovanni Lenzi
Smileupps Cloud App Store

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