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From Jan Lehnardt <>
Date Fri, 18 Sep 2015 11:52:32 GMT

> On 18 Sep 2015, at 06:52, Giovanni Lenzi <> wrote:
> I add:
> 8: database for the web!!!

That I like.

> 9: not just a database
> 10: Not only a database
> #8 +1: I think this is still the best option because it does not refer to a
> specific feature, and has the element/target which couchdb is all
> about/around
> Respectfully Jan, for direction in establishing the future you may listen
> to yourself and/or active erlang devs only, but this direction simply don't
> have community consensus. And this conflicts with the apache way!!!

No, it is exactly in line with the Apache Way, those who do the work get to decide where the
direction is going. The Apache Way is decidedly NOT some folks who prettyplease want features,
but don’t feel compelled to build what they want.

> Also imho it's a wrong approach due to some considerations:
> - active devs are active now... who knows until when? (and this is true for
> you too and the VC chair)

This is always true, I don’t see how this bears specially on this case.

> - you don't know if tomorrow some erlang skilled couchapp lover won't get
> in and start working on the app part (to say the truth some of them were
> already active in the past, but they chose to left just because of
> this/yours direction)

In my last email I specifically suggested for such a person to step up and I’d welcome them

> - you can't remove something that ALREADY exists which A LOT of people
> like, use and have businesses on top, just because you and a few people
> don't like it

Watch me.

> But above all:
> - you can't erase what Couchdb has been, what it is actually and what it

1. We can always go in a new direction without erasing what it had been in the past. This
happens all the time. And we’ve done it a bunch of times. CouchDB is so unique in what it
does that it took us a couple of years collectively to understand what the nature of it is.

2. Of course I cannot erase what CouchDB COULD BE, but CouchDB can only be what people are
working on, and nobody is working on CouchApps, so I’m going with a vision that is backed
up by the technology we have and working on.

* * *

I repeat: You won’t hold the project ransom for something you want, if you are not prepared
to do the hard work of making your vision a reality.

* * *

And as I’ve outlined a number of times, I have a pretty good idea of how the Couch/Appserver
thing could look like in the future, and it’d be 10000% better than what CouchApp has ever
been, and I am still very eager to work on it, but RIGHT NOW, we don’t have the resources
as the project, and we should focus on the the thing that makes CouchDB RELEVANT in the current
computing ecosystem, not what a bunch of far-out developers find interesting.

All major platform vendors today (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple and Amazon) have a Backend-as-a-Service
type offering with various degrees of sync/offline working.

CouchDB + related projects are THE ONLY OPEN SOURCE alternative in this game, and it is a
MASSIVE opportunity for us, not some esoteric way to do db/app-server stuff, that is hard
to understand and that has (relatively) barely any users. We can make a SIGNIFICANT impact
on the computing landscape of tomorrow, and I’m not interested in wasting that opportunity.

Again, the project doesn’t have the resources to develop this further, and once we do, we
have a fairly solid idea of how CouchApp 2.0 *could* look like, but RIGHT NOW, and probably
EVEN THEN, this won’t be the major differentiator for a World Class Database System™.

We are trying to put CouchDB on the path to success again, against fierce competition with
hundreds of millions of dollars of VC funding that goes into engineering and marketing. We
must focus on how we can make a difference with our limited resources in THAT CONTEXT, and
an esoteric app programming platform is NOT it.

* * *

One final time:

CouchDB is Open Source, if you want to see it going into a particularly direction, you are
VERY welcome to do the work and push things forward and you will receive all the support you
can imagine.

If you continue to try to push the project into a different direction by not getting to work,
but by just wasting the time of the people who spend their time on moving CouchDB forward,
then we can consider you as hostile against the CouchDB project and treat you accordingly.

This is isn’t just my personal opinion, I have the backup of the entire CouchDB PMC and
the ASF Board. If you have any issues with that, I suggest you come to terms with the situation,
or get to work as outlined above.


>> We need constructive ideas
> I picked up options, spread among previous posts. There are 10 of them:
> 1. Data where you need it.
> 2. Restful freedom.
> 3. The database that replicates.
> 4. Sync. Shard. REST.
> 5. Keeps data closer.
> 6. Data wherever you need it.
> 7. Data that sync.
> Two more, that are app-related, are dropped, also I dropped my own
> proposal, it was the weakest (
> #1 and #2 are equal to Jan‘s list.
> ermouth

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