From dev-return-49160-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@couchdb.apache.org Thu Mar 12 23:41:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 7300418064F for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2020 00:41:53 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 12438 invoked by uid 500); 12 Mar 2020 23:41:52 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 12409 invoked by uid 99); 12 Mar 2020 23:41:52 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id A8DDD1A42A5; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd2-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.687 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.687 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[KAM_DMARC_STATUS=0.01, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-ec2-va.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd2-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.9]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 70OsBmCZyG3u; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:49 +0000 (UTC) Received-SPF: Pass (mailfrom) identity=mailfrom; client-ip=217.70.183.194; helo=relay2-d.mail.gandi.net; envelope-from=arturo@ficuslabs.com; receiver= Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (relay2-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.194]) by mx1-ec2-va.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-ec2-va.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 55E1BBB80C; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Originating-IP: 188.29.164.123 Received: from android-644f31d52bcf747b (188.29.164.123.threembb.co.uk [188.29.164.123]) (Authenticated sender: arturo@ficuslabs.com) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5ABA940002; Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:39 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:38 +0000 User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <64383d31-5e86-214f-2ef7-1ce37605a1ea@apache.org> References: <8f609642-0b4e-5c1e-d0dd-459a08f0a59f@apache.org> <64383d31-5e86-214f-2ef7-1ce37605a1ea@apache.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] moving email lists to Discourse To: dev@couchdb.apache.org,Joan Touzet ,user@couchdb.apache.org CC: CouchDB Developers From: Arturo GARCIA-VARGAS Message-ID: I'm sure Discourse is a fantastic thing (never used it!) but for us dinosau= rs that still use Email it would be a bad move=2E Plain text rulez On 12 March 2020 23:37:18 GMT+00:00, Joan Touzet wro= te: >FYI, WikiMedia are currently looking at moving from mailing lists to=20 >Discourse and have done a comprehensive fit/gap analysis=2E Here's their= =20 >results, as current as 7 March 2020=2E > >https://meta=2Ewikimedia=2Eorg/wiki/Discourse > >Looks like email integration is still a problem, and specifically the=20 >problem of only-mailing list users being "left behind" (i=2Ee=2E, the >bridge=20 >seems to only work correctly one-way=2E) Other complications include data > >export=2E > >-Joan > >On 2020-03-12 14:56, Marcus wrote: >> The Discourse development team are always very helpful, and >friendly=2E=EF=BF=BC >>=20 >> http://meta=2Ediscourse=2Eorg >>=20 >> I am sure they would help CouchDB comply with Apache rules, if there >are any technical issues=2E Once it has been discussed with Apache of >course=2E >>=20 >> Discourse is excellent software=2E Thoughtfully designed and well >maintained=2E I had a Discourse server running on Digital Ocean for two >years=2E >>=20 >> It=E2=80=99s really nice to use and gives the community more of a >campfire/hub feeling=2E >>=20 >> Discourse is nothing like the old style forum software=2E There are >some talks on YouTube where Jeff (aka codinghorror) discusses how he >designed it (I think it was a talk at MIT?)=2E It=E2=80=99s really intere= sting >from a design and development perspective=2E >>=20 >> Marcus >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 12=2E Mar 2020, at 18:27, Joan Touzet wrote: >>> >>> =EF=BB=BFHi Garren, thanks for thinking ahead on this one=2E >>> >>>> On 2020-03-12 10:32, Garren Smith wrote: >>>> Hi All, >>>> The CouchDB slack channel has been a real success with lots of >people >>>> asking for help and getting involved=2E The main issue is that it is >not >>>> searchable so we often get people asking the same questions over >and over=2E >>>> The user mailing list is great in that sense that if you have >subscribed to >>>> it you have a searchable list of questions and answers=2E However, >it's >>>> really not user-friendly and judging by the fact that it has very >low user >>>> participation I'm guessing most people prefer to use slack to ask >questions=2E >>>> I've been really impressed with how the FoundationDB forum[1] and >the rust >>>> internal forum work [2]=2E I find them easy to use and really >encourage >>>> participation=2E >>> >>> I've been having trouble getting Discourse to send me email >notification when someone follows up to my responses to a thread I >didn't start=2E I think I've enabled the correct settings, but it's not >acting as expected=2E Hrm=2E >>> >>> I do know that Discourse has a full "mailing list mode," I just >haven't wanted 100% of the email from FoundationDB's forum to end up in >my inbox=2E (I *would* want that for user and dev@couchdb=2Ea=2Eo=2E) >>> >>>> I would like to propose that we move our user and dev >>>> discussion to Discourse or a forum that works as well as Discourse=2E >I think >>>> that would make it really easy for users of CouchDB to look up >answers to >>>> questions and get involved in the development discussion=2E >>>> I haven't checked yet, but I'm sure we could get all discourse >threads to >>>> automatically email back to the user and dev mailing list so that >we still >>>> fulfill our Apache requirements=2E >>> >>> We'd for sure have to have everything land on the Apache CouchDB >mailing lists as well as here to meet Apache rules and regulations=2E >And, of course, Infrastructure is going to have to approve the move, >possibly the Board as well=2E >>> >>> With the lists still existing forever, Discourse would need to be >configured to accept email responses as well, from people emailing dev@ >or user@, meaning a *bi-directional email gateway* will likely have to >be written/integrated=2E (I very much doubt Infra will be willing to >redirect dev@/user@ _directly_ into Discourse=2E) >>> >>> Thus, the bottleneck on the proposal is going to be Infrastructure's >desire to move ahead, as well as their ability to put resources on >solving the integration issues (unless you're willing to directly >volunteer to help code that up=2E) >>> >>> Infra may, for instance, want to host Discourse themselves (if I >recall correctly, it is self-hostable), and may find some friction >between that and the nascent Pony Mail project that serves out >lists=2Eapache=2Eorg - if not technically, from human factors=2E >>> >>> You should, at a bare minimum, familiarise yourself with >https://lists=2Eapache=2Eorg/list=2Ehtml?dev@couchdb=2Eapache=2Eorg and d= etermine >why it doesn't meet our needs=2E A bullet-point list would be prudent; >Infra is bound to raise this as their first point=2E >>> >>>> I know its a big step away from what we're used to with our mailing >lists, >>>> but I think it would definitely open up our community=2E >>> >>> I'm in support of the idea, but the devil's in the implementation >details=2E Like our efforts with git, and Slack, someone is going to have >to work together with Infra on this for a few months to make it >reality=2E I really hope you're volunteering to step up to that role=2E I >certainly don't have the time=2E >>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Garren >>> >>> -Joan >>> >>>> [1] https://forums=2Efoundationdb=2Eorg/ >>>> [2] https://internals=2Erust-lang=2Eorg/ >>=20