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From Arturo GARCIA-VARGAS <art...@ficuslabs.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] moving email lists to Discourse
Date Thu, 12 Mar 2020 23:41:38 GMT
I'm sure Discourse is a fantastic thing (never used it!) but for us dinosaurs that still use
Email it would be a bad move.

Plain text rulez

On 12 March 2020 23:37:18 GMT+00:00, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>FYI, WikiMedia are currently looking at moving from mailing lists to 
>Discourse and have done a comprehensive fit/gap analysis. Here's their 
>results, as current as 7 March 2020.
>
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse
>
>Looks like email integration is still a problem, and specifically the 
>problem of only-mailing list users being "left behind" (i.e., the
>bridge 
>seems to only work correctly one-way.) Other complications include data
>
>export.
>
>-Joan
>
>On 2020-03-12 14:56, Marcus wrote:
>> The Discourse development team are always very helpful, and
>friendly.
>> 
>> http://meta.discourse.org
>> 
>> I am sure they would help CouchDB comply with Apache rules, if there
>are any technical issues. Once it has been discussed with Apache of
>course.
>> 
>> Discourse is excellent software. Thoughtfully designed and well
>maintained. I had a Discourse server running on Digital Ocean for two
>years.
>> 
>> It’s really nice to use and gives the community more of a
>campfire/hub feeling.
>> 
>> Discourse is nothing like the old style forum software. There are
>some talks on YouTube where Jeff (aka codinghorror) discusses how he
>designed it (I think it was a talk at MIT?). It’s really interesting
>from a design and development perspective.
>> 
>> Marcus
>> 
>> 
>>> On 12. Mar 2020, at 18:27, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Garren, thanks for thinking ahead on this one.
>>>
>>>> On 2020-03-12 10:32, Garren Smith wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> The CouchDB slack channel has been a real success with lots of
>people
>>>> asking for help and getting involved. The main issue is that it is
>not
>>>> searchable so we often get people asking the same questions over
>and over.
>>>> The user mailing list is great in that sense that if you have
>subscribed to
>>>> it you have a searchable list of questions and answers. However,
>it's
>>>> really not user-friendly and judging by the fact that it has very
>low user
>>>> participation I'm guessing most people prefer to use slack to ask
>questions.
>>>> I've been really impressed with how the FoundationDB forum[1] and
>the rust
>>>> internal forum work [2]. I find them easy to use and really
>encourage
>>>> participation.
>>>
>>> I've been having trouble getting Discourse to send me email
>notification when someone follows up to my responses to a thread I
>didn't start. I think I've enabled the correct settings, but it's not
>acting as expected. Hrm.
>>>
>>> I do know that Discourse has a full "mailing list mode," I just
>haven't wanted 100% of the email from FoundationDB's forum to end up in
>my inbox. (I *would* want that for user and dev@couchdb.a.o.)
>>>
>>>> I would like to propose that we move our user and dev
>>>> discussion to Discourse or a forum that works as well as Discourse.
>I think
>>>> that would make it really easy for users of CouchDB to look up
>answers to
>>>> questions and get involved in the development discussion.
>>>> I haven't checked yet, but I'm sure we could get all discourse
>threads to
>>>> automatically email back to the user and dev mailing list so that
>we still
>>>> fulfill our Apache requirements.
>>>
>>> We'd for sure have to have everything land on the Apache CouchDB
>mailing lists as well as here to meet Apache rules and regulations.
>And, of course, Infrastructure is going to have to approve the move,
>possibly the Board as well.
>>>
>>> With the lists still existing forever, Discourse would need to be
>configured to accept email responses as well, from people emailing dev@
>or user@, meaning a *bi-directional email gateway* will likely have to
>be written/integrated. (I very much doubt Infra will be willing to
>redirect dev@/user@ _directly_ into Discourse.)
>>>
>>> Thus, the bottleneck on the proposal is going to be Infrastructure's
>desire to move ahead, as well as their ability to put resources on
>solving the integration issues (unless you're willing to directly
>volunteer to help code that up.)
>>>
>>> Infra may, for instance, want to host Discourse themselves (if I
>recall correctly, it is self-hostable), and may find some friction
>between that and the nascent Pony Mail project that serves out
>lists.apache.org - if not technically, from human factors.
>>>
>>> You should, at a bare minimum, familiarise yourself with
>https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@couchdb.apache.org and determine
>why it doesn't meet our needs. A bullet-point list would be prudent;
>Infra is bound to raise this as their first point.
>>>
>>>> I know its a big step away from what we're used to with our mailing
>lists,
>>>> but I think it would definitely open up our community.
>>>
>>> I'm in support of the idea, but the devil's in the implementation
>details. Like our efforts with git, and Slack, someone is going to have
>to work together with Infra on this for a few months to make it
>reality. I really hope you're volunteering to step up to that role. I
>certainly don't have the time.
>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Garren
>>>
>>> -Joan
>>>
>>>> [1] https://forums.foundationdb.org/
>>>> [2] https://internals.rust-lang.org/
>> 

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