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From Naomi Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] moving email lists to Discourse
Date Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:35:00 GMT
apparently GitHub has discussions now. it's still in beta, but you can specifically request
it if you want it if you contact support, I think

e.g., https://github.com/zeit/next.js/discussions <https://github.com/zeit/next.js/discussions>

I'm interested to know what we think about this and how this might/could fit into our plans
for user support, discussion, etc.

> On 13 Mar 2020, at 00:41, Arturo GARCIA-VARGAS <arturo@ficuslabs.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm sure Discourse is a fantastic thing (never used it!) but for us dinosaurs that still
use Email it would be a bad move.
> 
> Plain text rulez
> 
> On 12 March 2020 23:37:18 GMT+00:00, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>> FYI, WikiMedia are currently looking at moving from mailing lists to 
>> Discourse and have done a comprehensive fit/gap analysis. Here's their 
>> results, as current as 7 March 2020.
>> 
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discourse
>> 
>> Looks like email integration is still a problem, and specifically the 
>> problem of only-mailing list users being "left behind" (i.e., the
>> bridge 
>> seems to only work correctly one-way.) Other complications include data
>> 
>> export.
>> 
>> -Joan
>> 
>> On 2020-03-12 14:56, Marcus wrote:
>>> The Discourse development team are always very helpful, and
>> friendly.
>>> 
>>> http://meta.discourse.org
>>> 
>>> I am sure they would help CouchDB comply with Apache rules, if there
>> are any technical issues. Once it has been discussed with Apache of
>> course.
>>> 
>>> Discourse is excellent software. Thoughtfully designed and well
>> maintained. I had a Discourse server running on Digital Ocean for two
>> years.
>>> 
>>> It’s really nice to use and gives the community more of a
>> campfire/hub feeling.
>>> 
>>> Discourse is nothing like the old style forum software. There are
>> some talks on YouTube where Jeff (aka codinghorror) discusses how he
>> designed it (I think it was a talk at MIT?). It’s really interesting
>> from a design and development perspective.
>>> 
>>> Marcus
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 12. Mar 2020, at 18:27, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Garren, thanks for thinking ahead on this one.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2020-03-12 10:32, Garren Smith wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> The CouchDB slack channel has been a real success with lots of
>> people
>>>>> asking for help and getting involved. The main issue is that it is
>> not
>>>>> searchable so we often get people asking the same questions over
>> and over.
>>>>> The user mailing list is great in that sense that if you have
>> subscribed to
>>>>> it you have a searchable list of questions and answers. However,
>> it's
>>>>> really not user-friendly and judging by the fact that it has very
>> low user
>>>>> participation I'm guessing most people prefer to use slack to ask
>> questions.
>>>>> I've been really impressed with how the FoundationDB forum[1] and
>> the rust
>>>>> internal forum work [2]. I find them easy to use and really
>> encourage
>>>>> participation.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been having trouble getting Discourse to send me email
>> notification when someone follows up to my responses to a thread I
>> didn't start. I think I've enabled the correct settings, but it's not
>> acting as expected. Hrm.
>>>> 
>>>> I do know that Discourse has a full "mailing list mode," I just
>> haven't wanted 100% of the email from FoundationDB's forum to end up in
>> my inbox. (I *would* want that for user and dev@couchdb.a.o.)
>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to propose that we move our user and dev
>>>>> discussion to Discourse or a forum that works as well as Discourse.
>> I think
>>>>> that would make it really easy for users of CouchDB to look up
>> answers to
>>>>> questions and get involved in the development discussion.
>>>>> I haven't checked yet, but I'm sure we could get all discourse
>> threads to
>>>>> automatically email back to the user and dev mailing list so that
>> we still
>>>>> fulfill our Apache requirements.
>>>> 
>>>> We'd for sure have to have everything land on the Apache CouchDB
>> mailing lists as well as here to meet Apache rules and regulations.
>> And, of course, Infrastructure is going to have to approve the move,
>> possibly the Board as well.
>>>> 
>>>> With the lists still existing forever, Discourse would need to be
>> configured to accept email responses as well, from people emailing dev@
>> or user@, meaning a *bi-directional email gateway* will likely have to
>> be written/integrated. (I very much doubt Infra will be willing to
>> redirect dev@/user@ _directly_ into Discourse.)
>>>> 
>>>> Thus, the bottleneck on the proposal is going to be Infrastructure's
>> desire to move ahead, as well as their ability to put resources on
>> solving the integration issues (unless you're willing to directly
>> volunteer to help code that up.)
>>>> 
>>>> Infra may, for instance, want to host Discourse themselves (if I
>> recall correctly, it is self-hostable), and may find some friction
>> between that and the nascent Pony Mail project that serves out
>> lists.apache.org - if not technically, from human factors.
>>>> 
>>>> You should, at a bare minimum, familiarise yourself with
>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@couchdb.apache.org and determine
>> why it doesn't meet our needs. A bullet-point list would be prudent;
>> Infra is bound to raise this as their first point.
>>>> 
>>>>> I know its a big step away from what we're used to with our mailing
>> lists,
>>>>> but I think it would definitely open up our community.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm in support of the idea, but the devil's in the implementation
>> details. Like our efforts with git, and Slack, someone is going to have
>> to work together with Infra on this for a few months to make it
>> reality. I really hope you're volunteering to step up to that role. I
>> certainly don't have the time.
>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Garren
>>>> 
>>>> -Joan
>>>> 
>>>>> [1] https://forums.foundationdb.org/
>>>>> [2] https://internals.rust-lang.org/
>>> 


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