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From Joan Touzet <>
Subject Re: Removal of ibmcom/couchdb3 preview image
Date Tue, 04 Feb 2020 05:07:37 GMT
To quote a long time Apache member who's discussing a very similar issue 
in parallel over on right now:

> Downstream users trust Apache because of our provenance rules (per feedback
> over the years). Spoiling that assurance, spoils our reputation; that is
> kind of at the heart of the issue for the Board to debate.
(-Greg Stein)

I don't want to fight over this issue with you, or with them. Let's find 
a way to finesse this and get the involvement we need from others, 
without exacerbating the problem, OK?


On 2020-02-04 12:05 a.m., Joan Touzet wrote:
> Adam,
> I didn't specifically go after Will. Will was kind enough to step in and 
> help, which is great.
> Legal has been very, very clear on this. During my time on the board 
> it's come up as well. We do not want to incur their wrath.
> We *cannot* be pushing dev or master builds out to the general public. 
> Period.
> Making dev builds available to people who *directly* participate here - 
> on dev@couchdb.a.o - is fine. Making it available to the general 
> population outside of that mailing list - be that contributors who only 
> work on GitHub, people on Slack, Twitter, blogs, etc. is expressly 
> forbidden.
> I mean, we need more people on dev@ - how about trying to get them to 
> come here first? We could have a *passworded* Docker repo and get them 
> to pull it from there, that's fine. Or you could just tell people to:
>    git clone
>    docker build dev -t couchdb:dev
>    docker run couchdb:dev
> and report issues here. Is 3 lines harder than 1? Not really.
> You can go take this up with Legal if you want directly, but I 
> anticipate the answer will be a resounding *no*. I'm not going to make 
> their argument for them.
> -Joan
> On 2020-02-03 6:19 p.m., Adam Kocoloski wrote:
>> I pushed for a `couchdb3` preview image — heck, I built the first one 
>> myself 6 months ago (!) and hosted it in my own Docker Hub account. 
>> The upcoming CouchDB 3.0 release is better off for all the little bugs 
>> we found and fixed as a result of those pulls. Appropriately 
>> documented, it’s just an alternative version of 
>> <>
>> If you want to take an IBMer to task for violation of subsection II, 
>> part D of some ASF by-laws, pick me. Will has done a phenomenal job 
>> chasing down all our internal teams and encouraging them to work with 
>> us directly and avoid forking codebases or switching databases to meet 
>> their individual roadmaps, and this image was a big assist in that 
>> regard.
>>   Given that the publication of this image had such a positive effect 
>> on the quality of the software that we *are* releasing, I’d like to 
>> see if we can find a way to publish nightly Docker images in a more 
>> suitable location post 3.0. Thanks,
>> Adam
>>> On Feb 3, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Will Holley <> wrote:
>>> Thanks Joan for highlighting the problem; the image has been removed 
>>> from
>>> DockerHub.
>>> On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 at 17:46, Joan Touzet <> wrote:
>>>> On 2020-02-03 12:34, Jan Lehnardt wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Joan for raising this,
>>>>> I’m throwing in an extra “this is bad” because of the version number.
>>>> 3.0 is not a thing yet and we have brought that up with several 
>>>> IBMers that
>>>> calling anything intermediate “CouchDB3” (this is isn’t the first 
>>>> time) is
>>>> problematic in the CouchDB Slack.
>>>>> Y’all need to do better. Is suggest the removal of this image 
>>>>> blocks the
>>>> 3.0.0 release, to make sure nobody gets the wrong bits.
>>>> I agree - I was going to fork 3.x and 3.0.x today but I'll hold off
>>>> until this gets resolved. We still have 2 documentation issues that 
>>>> need
>>>> to be resolved, and verification of the Windows build, before we can
>>>> release anyway.
>>>> -Joan
>>>>> Best
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> —
>>>>>> On 3. Feb 2020, at 18:08, Joan Touzet <> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi IBM people,
>>>>>> This is a problem, especially because i'm seeing 50K+ pulls on this
>>>> image already.
>>>>>> We've not yet released CouchDB 3.0. Any use of this image outside
>>>> our immediate developer community is a direct violation of Apache 
>>>> release
>>>> protocols, and could result in serious problems down the road.
>>>>>> If you need a dev image for CouchDB to build Fauxton, that's one

>>>>>> thing
>>>> - but that image needs to be built each time, or hosted on a *private*
>>>> repository with credentials.
>>>>>> Please take this image offline immediately.
>>>>>> -Joan "not messing around" Touzet

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