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From Ahmet Altay <al...@google.com.INVALID>
Subject Re: Questions about CouchDB bylaws
Date Fri, 10 Aug 2018 22:14:29 GMT
Hi Joan,

Thank you for such a thoughtful response, very much appreciated. It would
take me some time to go over the material you shared. I will certainly come
back and ask more questions if I have any.

I would not be attending ApacheCon in Montreal, however a group of Beam
community members will be there. Some of them are greatly interested in
this discussion, I will encourage them to attend your talk.

Ahmet

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:03 PM, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Ahmet,
>
> Thanks for the kind words!
>
> Our bylaws were established in 2014 after some concern that the ASF
> itself didn't have specific enough rules for all of the various types of
> decisions our project needed to reach, as well as those rules being hard
> to parse and locate on the websites. We wanted to make it easier for
> contributors, committers and the PMC to understand how we intend to
> run the CouchDB project, and to have a clear reference for the future.
>
> As a community, we were in a time of great change. Two major code
> contributions were on their way into the code base that would result in
> CouchDB 2.0 after significant refactoring and some backward
> incompatibility. There was dissent within our development community
> about the direction of the product: were we primarily a "two-tier"
> development environment, or a database with an HTTP API and JSON data
> format? And we would soon be changing over from Subversion to Git,
> something our developers really wanted, but ASF Infrastructure was slow
> to adopt and embrace. We had to fight long and hard, and became the
> first project in the ASF to be allowed to use git officially. As part
> of this process we decided to move from Commit-Then-Review (CTR) to
> Review-Then-Commit (RTC), based on the popularity of the GitHub Pull
> Request model. This allows us to keep the master branch of our repo
> always release-able, something we struggled with for years prior.
>
> The discussion started here:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/f824e8d3c490460c739f6d769e1de0
> 2b24bf09fa2863e88116cb0577@1398714830@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> And continued here:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/40d49b259170f43c0908706c09cf5b
> 16e703365b7989ba79a1b8d9e6@1399489677@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> We then had a small amendment to the bylaws to correct an oversight:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e270c4fbb4374ae98ed73583ff9ff5
> d6a1660374f7a8084c1d795ea8@1399528340@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/03fdda4b8ec8cd7926f95daa5dfe94
> b7af5c568d39abda2e75918d87@1405991529@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> We have had, to my knowledge, only one other modification to the bylaws
> since then, which was to clarify how API deprecations will be handled
> in future versions by requiring their announcement on our dev@ list
> (actual commits only go to notifications@):
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/aa6d6ace4be652f3b4bb380b92ee92
> 48d84dece7fd3281406446ca05@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> Finally, we also discussed, voted on, and adopted our Code of Conduct,
> drawn from those written by many similar communities around the open
> source world.  A few short months later, that CoC would be adopted by
> the ASF at large. The CoC is not a cudgel, it's a way for us to ensure
> that the values that brought the team together in the first place
> persist past the founders' direct involvement in the project.
>
> Not sure it's worth rehashing the CoC discussion now that it's ASF-wide,
> but if you are interested in the gory details, here they are:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/18f059c0582a4700992cbb302c2539
> d235215226cad69d82abdc9444@1398713334@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/0cf65d2715348229f87e4b572d1765
> 802857755fab94ff9d8cd1924f@1400368799@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c3f5e3a462a0ab1ded3af5eec0ac37
> 4aa647f3c1e55e7cd7e6ba8d5d@1400531457@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> And the vote thread:
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/f1621bfe5bbf4dbf6e799e338e440a
> fb58cf58b6b91bc42a9f7622b4@1407028730@%3Cdev.couchdb.apache.org%3E
>
> I think investment in community pays off over the long haul. Take the
> time to discuss and debate the reasons for your bylaws. One key point
> for us was: how would vetos work? Did we feel right about a single
> person being able to veto a technical code change or release? And in
> what situations would the PMC be empowered to override the community
> (though in general, they don't ever want to do that!) Discuss how the
> ASF CoC can and should be used in your community to ensure good faith,
> positive discussions. It shouldn't be seen as a scary document, but
> something that helps remind people to be nice to each other, and to
> work towards the betterment of the project. The discussions together
> will highlight the areas in which you need work, and should spawn a
> series of actions that continuously improve your community.
>
> I'll be speaking at this year's ApacheCon in Montreal about other
> communities from which the ASF maybe can learn a thing or two. If
> you're able to attend, I'd love you to come! The talk is on Thursday.
> If you're not coming, the talk should be on YouTube a month or two
> later.
>
> If you have any lingering questions about our bylaws, or the process
> by which we adopted them, please feel free to ask.
>
> -Joan "good rules make good collaborators" Touzet
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ahmet Altay" <altay@google.com.INVALID>
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 4:27:33 PM
> > Subject: Questions about CouchDB bylaws
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There was a recent discussion on Apache Beam related to adding bylaws
> > to
> > that project. I wanted to look around to other projects with
> > published
> > bylaws and found CouchDB bylaws [1] to be a well written document. I
> > would
> > like to learn from your experience.
> >
> > Would you be able to share some context about how did you come to
> > this
> > version? What kind of considerations you had? What was tradeoffs? And
> > how
> > the community built consensus around it?
> >
> > Please feel free to point me to any existing notes.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Ahmet
> >
> > [1] http://couchdb.apache.org/bylaws.html
> >
>
>

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