zookeeper-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Github & Jira notifications
Date Thu, 23 May 2019 08:34:58 GMT
Me neither. I'm happy to keep the vote open a bit longer, we're in no rush.

Patrick, do you have anything to add?

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 1:15 PM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org> wrote:

> I’m not sure whether we have convinced Patrick entirely.
> Before casting my vote, I’d be happy if we could reach consensus in the
> community with this change, not just majority.
>
> Reason is that I rather feel it a nice-to-have improvement, not critical.
>
> Andor
>
>
>
> > On 2019. May 17., at 17:05, Flavio Junqueira <fpj@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > To add to this conversation, we have 5 mailing lists as of today:
> >
> > dev@z.a.o
> > commits@z.a.o
> > private@z.a.o
> > security@z.a.o
> > user@z.a.o
> >
> > The commits@ one was historically supposed to be for notifications.
> >
> > -Flavio
> >
> >
> >> On 17 May 2019, at 16:50, Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Alright, I will do so, thank you
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM Norbert Kalmar
> >> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think we should start a vote.
> >>>
> >>> Lars, feel free to start it, as it is your initiative, you can place
> your
> >>> argument in the initial email.
> >>> Thanks for bringing this up!
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Norbert
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:38 AM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I don't really have anything else to add to this conversation. I agree
> >>> with
> >>>> Norbert & Andor.
> >>>> Separating the lists is (slowly) becoming the standard at the ASF in
> the
> >>>> projects I participate in and it makes it easier for newcomers.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do we want to put this to a vote or abandon this?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:33 PM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Without responding to this, let’s clarify what emails are we talking
> >>>> about:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Jenkins build notifications: failures / successes,
> >>>>> - Jira notifications: Created, Updated, Status change, Commented,
> etc.
> >>>>> - Github notifications: opened/closed pull request, commented on
pull
> >>>>> request, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Researching a bit around it seems like that issues@ mailing list
is
> a
> >>>>> common pattern across some Hadoop projects:
> >>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html <
> >>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html>
> >>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <
> >>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html>
> >>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/contact <https://kafka.apache.org/contact>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But not on:
> >>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <
> >>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html>
> >>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html <
> >>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Andor
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 16:43, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org>
wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I seem to remember that in the early days of apache the intent
was
> >>> for
> >>>>> all
> >>>>>> developers to participate in development of the project. MLs
were
> >>> used
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>> this initially and there has been concern in the past about
the move
> >>> to
> >>>>>> JIRA as it removes critical discussions from the general dev
flow.
> >>> JIRA
> >>>>>> discussions are cc'd to an ML for just this reason. Granted
another
> >>>>> aspect
> >>>>>> of this mirroring is for archival purposes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As such the intent is for developers to participate in development
> >>>>>> discussion. It sounds like you're turning this on it's head.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Isn't this why we have a user list? For folks that are only
casually
> >>>>>> interested in project activity?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:31 AM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sorry for starting the vote too early, for some reason I
thought
> >>> it’s
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>> straightforward thing, but the concerns are valid.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe this is a good thing to do now, because the activity
in
> >>>>>>> ZooKeeper community has reached a level which the dev list
with all
> >>>>>>> notifications included hasn’t been prepared for. I see
emails every
> >>>> now
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>> then from people who fed up with the flood of notification
emails
> >>> and
> >>>>>>> decide to unsubscribe instead of taking the hassle of dealing
with
> >>>> email
> >>>>>>> filters.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Filters*
> >>>>>>> Pretty much everything which can be done with separate mailing
> >>> lists,
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>>> be achieved by some clever email filters too. Though I think
having
> >>>>>>> multiple mailing lists is technologically a better distinction
for
> >>>>> emails:
> >>>>>>> separate archives, different retention policies, less email
to be
> >>>>> delivered
> >>>>>>> (filters working on client side) and more convenient for
new
> >>>>> subscribers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Markmail*
> >>>>>>> I’m a power user of markmail too, but I’m not sure how
it works.
> >>> Tbh I
> >>>>>>> cannot see the benefits of searching for automated emails
from
> >>> Gitbox,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>>> I’m sure we can set it up properly, if needed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Existing users*
> >>>>>>> It’s completely valid that on the flip side we’ll mess
up the
> config
> >>>> of
> >>>>>>> existing users. I don’t we can avoid that or do this in
a backward
> >>>>>>> compatible way, but I think it’s worth to pay this price.
What will
> >>>>> happen
> >>>>>>> to them?
> >>>>>>> - Stop receiving emails from Jira and Github,
> >>>>>>> - Get the announcement on the dev list: hey, from now on
you need
> to
> >>>>>>> subscribe from a@zk.org if you want to be notified about
A and
> >>>> b@zk.org
> >>>>>>> if you want to be notified about B, etc.
> >>>>>>> I don’t think we can automatically subscribe them for
the new
> lists,
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>> sounds like against the law (GDPR?), but I’m not a lawyer.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My 2 cents.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> Andor
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 9:25, Norbert Kalmar
> >>>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.INVALID
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Well, +1 (non-binding) from my side (if it wasn't clear
from my
> >>> email
> >>>>> ).
> >>>>>>>> I agree that anyone following the dev list will have
a chance to
> >>>>> sign-up
> >>>>>>>> for the new list, basically that's all old users have
to do. Maybe
> >>>>>>>> delete/modify some filters.
> >>>>>>>> And anyone "semi-following" the ZK thread, I figure
doing nothing
> >>>> (not
> >>>>>>>> signing up for the new list) is fine, as they are mostly
> interested
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>> user
> >>>>>>>> emails, votes etc., and those email will remain in the
current
> >>> list.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But of course I can only speak for myself, and this
sounds like a
> >>>> good
> >>>>>>> idea
> >>>>>>>> to me.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:31 PM Lars Francke <
> >>> lars.francke@gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> re: existing users
> >>>>>>>>> I'd expect they read this mailing list, and if they
do they
> should
> >>>> see
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> announcement that things change and need to re-subscribe,
if they
> >>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>> follow the list anyway then...well nothing really
lost.
> >>>>>>>>> I understand the concern but I'm afraid there's
nothing we can do
> >>>>>>> there. I
> >>>>>>>>> don't think it's trivial to automatically subscribe
people to a
> >>> new
> >>>>>>> list,
> >>>>>>>>> we'd need to ask INFRA if it's even possible.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> re: new users: Yes, as a new subscriber it's definitely
VERY
> >>>>>>> overwhelming
> >>>>>>>>> (especially the gitbox mails) and it's also nowadays
almost
> >>>> unexpected
> >>>>>>>>> because most other projects (at least the ones I
follow) have the
> >>>>>>>>> separation of mailing lists already
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:28 PM Norbert Kalmar
> >>>>>>>>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.invalid>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I agree we have a lot of "noise", as others,
I have created the
> >>>>> filters
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> since forgot about them.
> >>>>>>>>>> But it is overwhelming for a new subscriber,
and filters always
> >>>> carry
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> dangers of false positive filtering. i.e. filter
out someone's
> >>>> email.
> >>>>>>>>>> I think someone joining the dev-zookeeper mailing
list is always
> >>> a
> >>>>> good
> >>>>>>>>>> thing, and we shouldn't scare them away :)
> >>>>>>>>>> For the existing users, I guess they would have
to sign up for
> >>> the
> >>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It would be nice, but I'm not even sure of all
the dependent
> >>> stuff
> >>>>>>>>> (Patrick
> >>>>>>>>>> just mentioned marmail for example).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>> Norbert
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:06 AM Lars Francke
<
> >>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I didn't mean to comment on the tracking
sites in the
> >>> VOTE
> >>>>>>>>> thread.
> >>>>>>>>>>> That belongs here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Either way: Markmail etc. shouldn't be broken.
Yes, they may
> >>> take
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> while
> >>>>>>>>>>> before they index stuff but the "canonical"
tracking site is
> >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org and that indexes
new stuff
> >>> automatically
> >>>>>>>>>> anwyay.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:55 AM Lars Francke
<
> >>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm subscribed to around 40-60 Apache
Mailing lists. If the
> >>>>>>>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were in a separate list I could just
subscribe to what I want
> >>>>> instead
> >>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> creating 80 or so filters.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think I disagree, I don't have to
create filters if the dev
> >>>> list
> >>>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>>>>>> contains "discussions".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:38 AM Patrick
Hunt <
> >>> phunt@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You're going to have to have a filter
regardless. Why change
> >>>> now?
> >>>>>>>>>> Also,
> >>>>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> you do change it, be sure to update
all of the tracking sites
> >>>> such
> >>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> markmail (etc...), I find this invaluable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:18 AM
Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> INFRA can do it all :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> See for example this:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17915>
for
> Jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18296>
for
> >>> Github
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The necessary mailing lists
can be created here <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be happy to file the issues
myself but it's better if it
> >>>>> comes
> >>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC member.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:00
AM Andor Molnar
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <andor@cloudera.com.invalid>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lars,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the hands,
yes, indeed we are interested!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I'm using all
kind of magic filters to separate
> >>>> signal
> >>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we need to do?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at
9:51 AM Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've recently subscribed
to the dev mailinglist but am
> >>>>>>>>>> overwhelmed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of github notifications
and about to unsubscribe
> >>>> again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But maybe you're interested
in moving the github & jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different mailing list?
I did a quick search for on the
> >>>>>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives but couldn't
find another thread about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The way we've done it
at the Apache Training project now
> >>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> example is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send all Github notifications
to notifications@ and all
> >>> Jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> messages
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues@ we only send
Jira open and close mails to dev@
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This lowers the volume
significantly and works just fine.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this something you'd
be interested in?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
>
>

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message