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From Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Github & Jira notifications
Date Thu, 30 May 2019 17:25:09 GMT
I already submitted a pull request yesterday. Only on mobile, don't have
the link right now.

On Thu, May 30, 2019, 18:32 Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org> wrote:

> Would somebody please update the Mailing Lists page on the website:
>
> https://zookeeper.apache.org/lists.html <
> https://zookeeper.apache.org/lists.html>
>
> Thanks,
> Andor
>
>
>
> > On 2019. May 23., at 16:24, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 1:35 AM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Me neither. I'm happy to keep the vote open a bit longer, we're in no
> rush.
> >>
> >> Patrick, do you have anything to add?
> >>
> >> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 1:15 PM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I’m not sure whether we have convinced Patrick entirely.
> >>> Before casting my vote, I’d be happy if we could reach consensus in the
> >>> community with this change, not just majority.
> >>>
> >>> Reason is that I rather feel it a nice-to-have improvement, not
> critical.
> >>>
> >>> Andor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 2019. May 17., at 17:05, Flavio Junqueira <fpj@apache.org>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> To add to this conversation, we have 5 mailing lists as of today:
> >>>>
> >>>> dev@z.a.o
> >>>> commits@z.a.o
> >>>> private@z.a.o
> >>>> security@z.a.o
> >>>> user@z.a.o
> >>>>
> >>>> The commits@ one was historically supposed to be for notifications.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Flavio
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 17 May 2019, at 16:50, Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alright, I will do so, thank you
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:46 AM Norbert Kalmar
> >>>>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I think we should start a vote.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Lars, feel free to start it, as it is your initiative, you can
place
> >>> your
> >>>>>> argument in the initial email.
> >>>>>> Thanks for bringing this up!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>> Norbert
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:38 AM Lars Francke <
> >> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I don't really have anything else to add to this conversation.
I
> >> agree
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> Norbert & Andor.
> >>>>>>> Separating the lists is (slowly) becoming the standard at
the ASF
> in
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> projects I participate in and it makes it easier for newcomers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Do we want to put this to a vote or abandon this?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 5:33 PM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Without responding to this, let’s clarify what emails
are we
> >> talking
> >>>>>>> about:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Jenkins build notifications: failures / successes,
> >>>>>>>> - Jira notifications: Created, Updated, Status change,
Commented,
> >>> etc.
> >>>>>>>> - Github notifications: opened/closed pull request,
commented on
> >> pull
> >>>>>>>> request, etc.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Researching a bit around it seems like that issues@
mailing list
> >> is
> >>> a
> >>>>>>>> common pattern across some Hadoop projects:
> >>>>>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html <
> >>>>>>>> https://hbase.apache.org/mailing-lists.html>
> >>>>>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <
> >>>>>>>> https://hadoop.apache.org/mailing_lists.html>
> >>>>>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/contact <
> https://kafka.apache.org/contact
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> But not on:
> >>>>>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html <
> >>>>>>>> https://hive.apache.org/mailing_lists.html>
> >>>>>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html <
> >>>>>>>> https://oozie.apache.org/mail-lists.html>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>> Andor
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 16:43, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I seem to remember that in the early days of apache
the intent
> was
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>> developers to participate in development of the
project. MLs were
> >>>>>> used
> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> this initially and there has been concern in the
past about the
> >> move
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> JIRA as it removes critical discussions from the
general dev
> flow.
> >>>>>> JIRA
> >>>>>>>>> discussions are cc'd to an ML for just this reason.
Granted
> >> another
> >>>>>>>> aspect
> >>>>>>>>> of this mirroring is for archival purposes.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As such the intent is for developers to participate
in
> development
> >>>>>>>>> discussion. It sounds like you're turning this on
it's head.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Isn't this why we have a user list? For folks that
are only
> >> casually
> >>>>>>>>> interested in project activity?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 3:31 AM Andor Molnar <andor@apache.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Sorry for starting the vote too early, for some
reason I thought
> >>>>>> it’s
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> straightforward thing, but the concerns are
valid.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I believe this is a good thing to do now, because
the activity
> in
> >>>>>>>>>> ZooKeeper community has reached a level which
the dev list with
> >> all
> >>>>>>>>>> notifications included hasn’t been prepared
for. I see emails
> >> every
> >>>>>>> now
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> then from people who fed up with the flood of
notification
> emails
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> decide to unsubscribe instead of taking the
hassle of dealing
> >> with
> >>>>>>> email
> >>>>>>>>>> filters.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Filters*
> >>>>>>>>>> Pretty much everything which can be done with
separate mailing
> >>>>>> lists,
> >>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> be achieved by some clever email filters too.
Though I think
> >> having
> >>>>>>>>>> multiple mailing lists is technologically a
better distinction
> >> for
> >>>>>>>> emails:
> >>>>>>>>>> separate archives, different retention policies,
less email to
> be
> >>>>>>>> delivered
> >>>>>>>>>> (filters working on client side) and more convenient
for new
> >>>>>>>> subscribers.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Markmail*
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m a power user of markmail too, but I’m
not sure how it works.
> >>>>>> Tbh I
> >>>>>>>>>> cannot see the benefits of searching for automated
emails from
> >>>>>> Gitbox,
> >>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m sure we can set it up properly, if needed.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Existing users*
> >>>>>>>>>> It’s completely valid that on the flip side
we’ll mess up the
> >>> config
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> existing users. I don’t we can avoid that
or do this in a
> >> backward
> >>>>>>>>>> compatible way, but I think it’s worth to
pay this price. What
> >> will
> >>>>>>>> happen
> >>>>>>>>>> to them?
> >>>>>>>>>> - Stop receiving emails from Jira and Github,
> >>>>>>>>>> - Get the announcement on the dev list: hey,
from now on you
> need
> >>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> subscribe from a@zk.org if you want to be notified
about A and
> >>>>>>> b@zk.org
> >>>>>>>>>> if you want to be notified about B, etc.
> >>>>>>>>>> I don’t think we can automatically subscribe
them for the new
> >>> lists,
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> sounds like against the law (GDPR?), but I’m
not a lawyer.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> My 2 cents.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>> Andor
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2019. May 13., at 9:25, Norbert Kalmar
> >>>>>>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.INVALID
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, +1 (non-binding) from my side (if
it wasn't clear from my
> >>>>>> email
> >>>>>>>> ).
> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree that anyone following the dev list
will have a chance
> to
> >>>>>>>> sign-up
> >>>>>>>>>>> for the new list, basically that's all old
users have to do.
> >> Maybe
> >>>>>>>>>>> delete/modify some filters.
> >>>>>>>>>>> And anyone "semi-following" the ZK thread,
I figure doing
> >> nothing
> >>>>>>> (not
> >>>>>>>>>>> signing up for the new list) is fine, as
they are mostly
> >>> interested
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>> user
> >>>>>>>>>>> emails, votes etc., and those email will
remain in the current
> >>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> But of course I can only speak for myself,
and this sounds like
> >> a
> >>>>>>> good
> >>>>>>>>>> idea
> >>>>>>>>>>> to me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:31 PM Lars Francke
<
> >>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> re: existing users
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd expect they read this mailing list,
and if they do they
> >>> should
> >>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> announcement that things change and
need to re-subscribe, if
> >> they
> >>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>> follow the list anyway then...well nothing
really lost.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I understand the concern but I'm afraid
there's nothing we can
> >> do
> >>>>>>>>>> there. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> don't think it's trivial to automatically
subscribe people to
> a
> >>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>> list,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we'd need to ask INFRA if it's even
possible.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> re: new users: Yes, as a new subscriber
it's definitely VERY
> >>>>>>>>>> overwhelming
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (especially the gitbox mails) and it's
also nowadays almost
> >>>>>>> unexpected
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because most other projects (at least
the ones I follow) have
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> separation of mailing lists already
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:28 PM Norbert
Kalmar
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.invalid>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree we have a lot of "noise",
as others, I have created
> >> the
> >>>>>>>> filters
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> since forgot about them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> But it is overwhelming for a new
subscriber, and filters
> >> always
> >>>>>>> carry
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dangers of false positive filtering.
i.e. filter out
> someone's
> >>>>>>> email.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think someone joining the dev-zookeeper
mailing list is
> >> always
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing, and we shouldn't scare them
away :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For the existing users, I guess
they would have to sign up
> for
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be nice, but I'm not even
sure of all the dependent
> >>>>>> stuff
> >>>>>>>>>>>> (Patrick
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just mentioned marmail for example).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Norbert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:06 AM
Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I didn't mean to comment
on the tracking sites in the
> >>>>>> VOTE
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thread.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> That belongs here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way: Markmail etc. shouldn't
be broken. Yes, they may
> >>>>>> take
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> while
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before they index stuff but
the "canonical" tracking site is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org and
that indexes new stuff
> >>>>>> automatically
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> anwyay.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:55
AM Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm subscribed to around
40-60 Apache Mailing lists. If the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were in a separate list
I could just subscribe to what I
> >> want
> >>>>>>>> instead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creating 80 or so filters.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I disagree, I don't
have to create filters if the
> >> dev
> >>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>> only
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contains "discussions".
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at
12:38 AM Patrick Hunt <
> >>>>>> phunt@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You're going to have
to have a filter regardless. Why
> >> change
> >>>>>>> now?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you do change it, be
sure to update all of the tracking
> >> sites
> >>>>>>> such
> >>>>>>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markmail (etc...), I
find this invaluable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019
at 1:18 AM Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> INFRA can do it
all :)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See for example
this:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17915>
for
> >>> Jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18296>
for
> >>>>>> Github
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The necessary mailing
lists can be created here <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org/>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd be happy to
file the issues myself but it's better if
> >> it
> >>>>>>>> comes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC member.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10,
2019 at 10:00 AM Andor Molnar
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <andor@cloudera.com.invalid>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Lars,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for
the hands, yes, indeed we are interested!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently I'm
using all kind of magic filters to
> separate
> >>>>>>> signal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noise.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do we need
to do?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andor
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, May
10, 2019 at 9:51 AM Lars Francke <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've recently
subscribed to the dev mailinglist but am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> overwhelmed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> number of
github notifications and about to unsubscribe
> >>>>>>> again.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But maybe
you're interested in moving the github & jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notifications
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different
mailing list? I did a quick search for on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> mailing
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives
but couldn't find another thread about it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The way
we've done it at the Apache Training project
> now
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send all
Github notifications to notifications@ and
> all
> >>>>>> Jira
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues@
we only send Jira open and close mails to dev@
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This lowers
the volume significantly and works just
> >> fine.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is this
something you'd be interested in?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lars
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>

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