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From Andor Molnar <an...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Github & Jira notifications
Date Mon, 13 May 2019 10:31:35 GMT
Hi,

Sorry for starting the vote too early, for some reason I thought it’s a straightforward
thing, but the concerns are valid.

I believe this is a good thing to do now, because the activity in ZooKeeper community has
reached a level which the dev list with all notifications included hasn’t been prepared
for. I see emails every now and then from people who fed up with the flood of notification
emails and decide to unsubscribe instead of taking the hassle of dealing with email filters.

*Filters*
Pretty much everything which can be done with separate mailing lists, can be achieved by some
clever email filters too. Though I think having multiple mailing lists is technologically
a better distinction for emails: separate archives, different retention policies, less email
to be delivered (filters working on client side) and more convenient for new subscribers.

*Markmail*
I’m a power user of markmail too, but I’m not sure how it works. Tbh I cannot see the
benefits of searching for automated emails from Gitbox, but I’m sure we can set it up properly,
if needed.

*Existing users*
It’s completely valid that on the flip side we’ll mess up the config of existing users.
I don’t we can avoid that or do this in a backward compatible way, but I think it’s worth
to pay this price. What will happen to them?
- Stop receiving emails from Jira and Github,
- Get the announcement on the dev list: hey, from now on you need to subscribe from a@zk.org
if you want to be notified about A and b@zk.org if you want to be notified about B, etc.
I don’t think we can automatically subscribe them for the new lists, it sounds like against
the law (GDPR?), but I’m not a lawyer. 

My 2 cents.

Regards,
Andor



> On 2019. May 13., at 9:25, Norbert Kalmar <nkalmar@cloudera.com.INVALID> wrote:
> 
> Well, +1 (non-binding) from my side (if it wasn't clear from my email ).
> I agree that anyone following the dev list will have a chance to sign-up
> for the new list, basically that's all old users have to do. Maybe
> delete/modify some filters.
> And anyone "semi-following" the ZK thread, I figure doing nothing (not
> signing up for the new list) is fine, as they are mostly interested in user
> emails, votes etc., and those email will remain in the current list.
> 
> But of course I can only speak for myself, and this sounds like a good idea
> to me.
> 
> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:31 PM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> re: existing users
>> I'd expect they read this mailing list, and if they do they should see the
>> announcement that things change and need to re-subscribe, if they don't
>> follow the list anyway then...well nothing really lost.
>> I understand the concern but I'm afraid there's nothing we can do there. I
>> don't think it's trivial to automatically subscribe people to a new list,
>> we'd need to ask INFRA if it's even possible.
>> 
>> re: new users: Yes, as a new subscriber it's definitely VERY overwhelming
>> (especially the gitbox mails) and it's also nowadays almost unexpected
>> because most other projects (at least the ones I follow) have the
>> separation of mailing lists already
>> 
>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 6:28 PM Norbert Kalmar
>> <nkalmar@cloudera.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree we have a lot of "noise", as others, I have created the filters
>> and
>>> since forgot about them.
>>> But it is overwhelming for a new subscriber, and filters always carry the
>>> dangers of false positive filtering. i.e. filter out someone's email.
>>> I think someone joining the dev-zookeeper mailing list is always a good
>>> thing, and we shouldn't scare them away :)
>>> For the existing users, I guess they would have to sign up for the new
>>> list.
>>> 
>>> It would be nice, but I'm not even sure of all the dependent stuff
>> (Patrick
>>> just mentioned marmail for example).
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Norbert
>>> 
>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:06 AM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sorry, I didn't mean to comment on the tracking sites in the VOTE
>> thread.
>>>> That belongs here.
>>>> 
>>>> Either way: Markmail etc. shouldn't be broken. Yes, they may take a
>> while
>>>> before they index stuff but the "canonical" tracking site is
>>>> https://lists.apache.org and that indexes new stuff automatically
>>> anwyay.
>>>> 
>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 9:55 AM Lars Francke <lars.francke@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'm subscribed to around 40-60 Apache Mailing lists. If the
>>> notifications
>>>>> were in a separate list I could just subscribe to what I want instead
>>> of
>>>>> creating 80 or so filters.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think I disagree, I don't have to create filters if the dev list
>> only
>>>>> contains "discussions".
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Lars
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 12:38 AM Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> You're going to have to have a filter regardless. Why change now?
>>> Also,
>>>> if
>>>>>> you do change it, be sure to update all of the tracking sites such
>> as
>>>>>> markmail (etc...), I find this invaluable.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 1:18 AM Lars Francke <
>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> INFRA can do it all :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> See for example this:
>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-17915> for
Jira
>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18296> for
Github
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The necessary mailing lists can be created here <
>>>>>>> https://selfserve.apache.org/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd be happy to file the issues myself but it's better if it
comes
>>>> from
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> PMC member.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 10:00 AM Andor Molnar
>>>>>> <andor@cloudera.com.invalid>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Lars,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you for the hands, yes, indeed we are interested!
>>>>>>>> Currently I'm using all kind of magic filters to separate
signal
>>>> from
>>>>>>>> noise.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> What do we need to do?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Andor
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 9:51 AM Lars Francke <
>>>> lars.francke@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I've recently subscribed to the dev mailinglist but am
>>> overwhelmed
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> number of github notifications and about to unsubscribe
again.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> But maybe you're interested in moving the github &
jira
>>>>>> notifications
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> different mailing list? I did a quick search for on the
>> mailing
>>>> list
>>>>>>>>> archives but couldn't find another thread about it.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The way we've done it at the Apache Training project
now for
>>>>>> example is
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> send all Github notifications to notifications@ and all
Jira
>>>>>> messages
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> issues@ we only send Jira open and close mails to dev@
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This lowers the volume significantly and works just fine.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Is this something you'd be interested in?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 


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