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From Jordan Zimmerman <jor...@jordanzimmerman.com>
Subject Re: reconfig APIs
Date Thu, 08 Dec 2016 22:50:21 GMT
Thanks for the replies everyone. Adding the methods back with a deprecation notice solves Curator’s
problems so I’ll proceed with that on ZOOKEEPER-2642.

-Jordan

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 6:56 PM, Michael Han <hanm@cloudera.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks Jordan for raising the concern. It's a reasonable concern with good
> intention to make user's life easier, which is important to the project.
> 
> There are two separate issues we need to reach a consensus here:
> 
> * Move reconfig API
> The details of why the decision was made is documented in ZOOKEEPER-2014
> JIRA, but just to recap, the API is moved because it's the right thing to
> do in long term, which yield a cleaner interface design for ZooKeeper
> client API. In future, we might also want to clean up other APIs (i.e. move
> quota related APIs over as well.) as well. While seemingly stylish as it
> might look like, I believe a clean API is also important for a project's
> usability / adoption. From the discussions so far I think everyone either
> agree with this, or have no strong opinion against it, so I consider this
> question is solved.
> 
> * Backward compatibility between releases
> Since we decide refactor reconfig API, the question is when. The reconfig
> API was removed from ZOOKEEPER-2014 (which targets 3.5.3 alpha) because of
> the definition of alpha / beta releases in the context of ZooKeeper project
> (I'm not saying this is right or wrong, simply state a fact up to date): an
> alpha release implies that we allow backward incompatible changes, and a
> beta release implies that the APIs are locked down and none backward
> compatible change. Given this definition, it is perfectly legitimate to
> move API around w/o considering compatibility. Now what Jordan pointed out
> regarding definition of 'alpha' combined with some old discussion threads I
> found in user list indicate that our definition of 'alpha', and 'beta' is
> none standard and could cause confusions. So I think we should try reach a
> consensus on whether we stick with current definition of 'alpha' and 'beta'
> release during 3.5.3 release cycle, or adopt something else.
> 
> With all these said, I think options are:
> * Do nothing, stick with current alpha / beta definition.
> * Try redefine what 'alpha' and 'beta' means in the context of ZooKeeper
> and then go from there in 3.5.3 release cycle.
> 
> In any cases, I'd like to propose we keep the reconfig API in
> ZooKeeperAdmin which as previously stated is the right thing to do in long
> term. If we decide to maintain backward API compatibility for 3.5.3-beta
> release, we could add reconfig API back to ZooKeeper but mark it as
> deprecated, then remove the API in next major release (3.6 or 4.x).
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 8:27 AM, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> I've only seen a few questions about versioning come up on the ZK lists,
>> they were quickly responded to with pointers to the process. iirc we based
>> our versioning scheme on what Hadoop was/is using. Additionally if we don't
>> allow for alpha time it will further slow progress as there will be no
>> opportunity to adjust things like APIs once they are committed and
>> generally available for people to "kick the tires".
>> 
>> I'll leave it up to the rest of the community to state their opinions, but
>> as i have stated imo it would be a mistake to revert this change. Jordan
>> has raised a reasonable concern - I consider this a blocker for 3.5.3-alpha
>> until it is resolved.
>> 
>> Patrick
>> 
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> I think people understand what alpha means.
>>> 
>>> With respect, the ZooKeeper team has used “alpha” in a novel way that is
>>> sowing considerable confusion. I wrote emails about this a while back.
>> But,
>>> here again, is another case where the non-standard usage of “alpha” will
>>> cause confusion. To reiterate: someone who sees "3.5.2-alpha” will think
>>> that there will eventually be a “3.5.2-beta” and finally a “3.5.2”
>> release
>>> version. But, with ZooKeeper there will never be a “3.5.2” release. In
>>> fact, the “-alpha” label is mis-located. The real version is
>>> “3.5.?-alpha1”, “3.5.?-alpha2”, etc. There’s an important implication
>> here.
>>> If a ZooKeeper user who doesn’t follow the mailing lists, etc. sees
>>> “3.5.2-alpha” and “3.5.3-alpha” they will mentally see these as two
>>> different releases. What ZOOKEEPER-2014 has done is remove an existing
>> API
>>> from what appears to be a released version 3.5.2 (which never really
>>> existed). This change violates semantic versioning. For external users,
>> the
>>> version after “3.5.2” should be “4.x.x” as it has breaking changes.
>>> 
>>>> It's not about style, there were a number of concerns addressed in that
>>>> patch.
>>> 
>>> The auth issues are very real ones. The issues in ZOOKEEPER-2014 can be
>>> addressed completely without moving the reconfig() methods to a new
>> class.
>>> It may be useful to move APIs around for clarity, etc. but these breaking
>>> changes should be for a version that signals breaking changes - 4.x.x or
>>> something. i.e. moving the reconfig() APIs is orthogonal to the concerns
>> of
>>> ZOOKEEPER-2014 and should be a separate Jira issue.
>>> 
>>>> I think people understand what alpha means. There may be some short
>> term
>>>> impact for a few, but a significant benefit over the long term.
>>> 
>>> Again with respect - 3.5.0-alpha was made available in Maven Central
>>> August 2014 - over 2 years ago. Regardless of the ZooKeeper team’s
>> intent,
>>> this is NOT an alpha in users’ minds. This is a released library that is
>> in
>>> production in major organizations. The ZooKeeper team should realize this
>>> and adjust their thinking about the “alpha” tag. For Apache Curator,
>> we’re
>>> now put in a position where the reconfig() APIs have disappeared. In
>> order
>>> to maintain our own internal semantic versioning we will have to
>> consider a
>>> third branch of Curator (we currently have a ZooKeeper 3.4.x compatible
>>> version and a ZooKeeper 3.5.x compatible version). It would be awesome if
>>> we didn’t have to do this.
>>> 
>>> -Jordan
>>> 
>>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 7:16 PM, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> It's not about style, there were a number of concerns addressed in that
>>>> patch. We didn't take the change lightly, we've been discussing it over
>>>> jira and the mailing list over the past two years.
>>>> 
>>>> I think people understand what alpha means. There may be some short
>> term
>>>> impact for a few, but a significant benefit over the long term.
>>>> 
>>>> Patrick
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 7, 2016 9:24 AM, "Jordan Zimmerman" <jordan@jordanzimmerman.com
>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I read through the issue and disagree about the decision to move the
>>> APIs
>>>>> out. That was a stylistic choice that breaks client code. I realize
>> that
>>>>> 3.5.x has been advertised as an alpha but you must realize that most
>> of
>>> the
>>>>> world is using it in production. These APIs have now been published.
>>> This
>>>>> will create a real headache for Curator which is why I’ve created
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-2642 <
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ZOOKEEPER-2642> - I hope we
can
>>>>> move these APIs back into ZooKeeper.java.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jordan
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's discussed in more depth in the JIRA iirc, but basically;
>>>>>> ZooKeeper.java provides client APIs, reconfig is an admiistrative
>> API.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 8:48 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I understand the need to make the methods require proper auth
but
>>>>> there's
>>>>>>> no reason to move it to a different class that I can see. Am
I
>> missing
>>>>>>> something?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ====================
>>>>>>> Jordan Zimmerman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Patrick Hunt <phunt@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> This problem has been a long standing blocker issue for 3.5
and
>>>>>>> identified
>>>>>>>> early on as something that would need to change. This has
been one
>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> reasons why 3.5 has stayed in alpha - because we allow non-backward
>>>>>>>> compatible changes to new APIs in alpha and we knew we would
have
>> to
>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>> this. The description/comments of ZOOKEEPER-2014 does a good
job
>>>>>>>> documenting why this had to change.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 3:18 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>>>>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> OK - I found the offending issue: ZOOKEEPER-2014
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> What is the benefit/logic of moving the reconfig() variants
into a
>>> new
>>>>>>>>> class? I can see if this was done from the start but
you have now
>>>>> broken
>>>>>>>>> Curator in a fairly serious non-backward compatible way
for a
>> minor
>>>>>>>>> documenting benefit. Does anyone object to me reversing
this?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -Jordan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:37 AM, Jordan Zimmerman <
>>>>>>>>> jordan@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I was compiling Curator against the ZK master and
noticed that
>> the
>>>>>>>>> reconfig APIs are gone/changed. Can anyone point me at
the issues
>>> for
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> and/or the discussion why this breaking change was made?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> -Jordan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Cheers
> Michael.


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