From dev-return-939-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@zipkin.apache.org Fri Jun 14 02:27:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 0287418064E for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 04:27:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 7072 invoked by uid 500); 14 Jun 2019 02:27:37 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@zipkin.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@zipkin.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@zipkin.apache.org Received: (qmail 7061 invoked by uid 99); 14 Jun 2019 02:27:37 -0000 Received: from ui-eu-01.ponee.io (HELO localhost) (176.9.59.70) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:27:37 +0000 X-Mailer: LuaSocket 3.0-rc1 References: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:27:26 -0000 x-ponymail-sender: bc312312d0d3a366bd462ac5cc857d4e3a967798 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 From: Adrian Cole Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator To: x-ponymail-agent: PonyMail Composer/0.3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 +1 On 2019/06/14 02:24:56, Adrian Cole wrote: > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep our > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that > request. > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast. > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, José Carlos Chávez, Kristof > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lance > Linder > > Here's the private thread: > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72 > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again. > ---- > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did. > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your > opinions matter and I hope you all vote. > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management, > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well. > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry > over. > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either. > We are all the same class. > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definition > not rich. > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupied > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteers > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple > escalations from our mentors. > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as > OpenZipkin again. > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you > will take personally to address the problems, and which > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1. > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17 > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=2019&month= > 06&day=17 > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org