From dev-return-956-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@zipkin.apache.org Fri Jun 14 15:37:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [207.244.88.153]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id AFBC818067E for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 17:37:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 66271 invoked by uid 500); 14 Jun 2019 15:37:02 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@zipkin.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@zipkin.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@zipkin.apache.org Received: (qmail 66001 invoked by uid 99); 14 Jun 2019 15:37:01 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd4-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:37:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd4-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd4-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id E1CC2C2826 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:37:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd4-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, GB_FROM_NAME_FREEMAIL=0.01, KAM_ASCII_DIVIDERS=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd4-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd4-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.11]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x8ily875oN42 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:36:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-wr1-f48.google.com (mail-wr1-f48.google.com [209.85.221.48]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id A91115F524 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:36:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-wr1-f48.google.com with SMTP id x4so3011877wrt.6 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vokOvngLkfCQKpTSqwU/a5cScs0qQijYiJrosctpG7Q=; b=Vh556v4Furr2GKGXJEvd1KmcPS3t/b+85LEDNEcHQBtaYFJJ+aLUdcj4rq1Ziv7/2a xq3kXE+cXLhVsDoqDwrvnXpHxnQdjzqk5UwcaDg7C8nug9yBlvKQVSzPfnPOc7ml0tRz 1cwUK26FzogUoMJH4EvZynFfYfSwJtWuO/MDfVa3yS1nId13faVxz1LoCFXgqpHiB/OR QUvood+6qaFpObap4znmX+3H17PfGpzWhfNawpyL0sskMVarjEZqVM4Fq+GgC/eniqcO tg1iIY1MAI4hHogtTVJuU9O4PzT4YMBorpn141EHuj62rYAYy3leieCdPrFFjsZdvkkY SciA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vokOvngLkfCQKpTSqwU/a5cScs0qQijYiJrosctpG7Q=; b=tJyLJ/twFCvnzVVC3EEbODUXZGqCvEfnmx7sVvIJjvGdSivh2SC0/XAbOnyD+OY+Vr zg4Ly4b/xUE5MPRBT1QxKMIsem/vGKCCBDqrNjCGeliI0audGlZXM8NT7UYocGRWfk53 MkVkjHPsS3Nd5LoiCoOPOtYU9+JrZjnomgn2l3UsxWjWUzi8VJ767WBuHzu1bsZV5upu W7YCoXjfpyvq/D91PRPqfw0GvA/bmoQjqxj+aRhN3wYUMW4QnvhqaJndng74jfDJefVa HGVSaDOQK+0S0SbfzAi1jJiJ74ZUn2ngdSWT9YOXaR//P5C9vFlNduStrmMTzh741j/j vDNA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXg6XdMar3o2wOebIUG0FLaNtG1ExRDKjEGw48rOoG/UfuAi2qQ uyjfFoK8M7YkGIPURsx3nnxBCfiTVSaUcuM74JkejEY6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqywozN6ONS7Ae9Cpk9F4nvjnrj8uvz7FJLZ59AnY2T2Zf2QHH0NDqhnFhdpWU9e7bsHl6BCEw7fdMN7cAabJMQ= X-Received: by 2002:adf:b605:: with SMTP id f5mr5672927wre.305.1560526617323; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:36:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Willem Jiang Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 23:36:45 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Withdraw from the Apache Incubator To: dev@zipkin.apache.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1, I can felt the pain of Zipkin and I respect the choice of Zipkin team. Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: =E5=A7=9C=E5=AE=81willem On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:08 PM Brian Devins-Suresh wr= ote: > > +1 the pain/gain ratio was too high > > On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 4:10 AM wrote: > > > +1 > > > > > Op 14 jun. 2019, om 04:24 heeft Adrian Cole h= et > > volgende geschreven: > > > > > > The PPMC held a vote on our private list to withdraw from the Apache > > > Incubator. We did this for reason of discretion, similar to how new > > > PPMC members are voted in, and for lack of any formal process to > > > conduct such a vote. John D. Ament asked us to vote again "to keep ou= r > > > own processes simple", so this vote is in accordance with that > > > request. > > > > > > 8 votes to leave carry over from the private list, including 7 of our > > > 12 PPMC members [1]. There were no 0 or -1 votes cast. > > > > > > IPMC +1 Sheng Wu > > > PPMC +7 Adrian Cole, Bas van Beek, Jos=C3=A9 Carlos Ch=C3=A1vez, Kris= tof > > > Adriaenssens, Jorge Esteban Quilcate Otoya, Brian Devins-Suresh, Lanc= e > > > Linder > > > > > > Here's the private thread: > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b47dc4cdce50ca5d4229d73d2ac745904e= 3a4b70bebfabe1cbf7c55a@%3Cprivate.zipkin.apache.org%3E > > > > > > Below is the description of the vote, which we'll extend here for 72 > > > hours. Folks who have formerly voted can feel free to vote again. > > > ---- > > > > > > It has been the experience from more than one of us that the Apache > > > Incubator is more stressful and requires more effort than initially > > > anticipated or is necessary. This vote recommends we leave the > > > incubator back to the OpenZipkin org and carry on as we did. > > > > > > Here is some background. I will not cite here. If you are a committer > > > you can also express your point of view with or without citing. Your > > > opinions matter and I hope you all vote. > > > > > > Process and policy ambiguity has been ever present and cost us a lot > > > of time and energy. The incubator spends more energy on failing us > > > than helping us. Tooling gaps, whether related to process management, > > > source verification or multiple repositories have impacted us as well= . > > > We have lost considerable velocity since attempting to join. Even if > > > we graduate, there is no guarantee strictness felt so far won't carry > > > over. > > > > > > The burdens don't stop here, there is a lot of fear about our greater > > > community, OpenZipkin and how to fireproof branding across what is > > > Apache and what is not. This is not only a cultural miss for us, but > > > yet more overhead and also tension. We still have to maintain the old > > > namespace, and we also get tension from the incubator that the old > > > namespace exists. Probably many projects can control their whole > > > ecosystem but we cannot and as far as I know do not desire to either. > > > We are all the same class. > > > > > > Some large projects can afford incubator strictness and carry on > > > despite these hurdles and lack of tools. Small or mono repo projects > > > have far less work anyway. Those with larger projects usually have > > > fulltime staff to address the gaps, write nice websites navigating > > > process, make tools etc. It is costly and we are frankly by definitio= n > > > not rich. > > > > > > Moreover, OpenZipkin is culturally against building things that > > > require effort to get working. Our very first act as a part of a > > > community was to remove the burden of forcing users to build from > > > source. There is definitely conflict with us and a culture preoccupie= d > > > with source ceremony and without interest to the impacts on volunteer= s > > > or the quality if the experience. This mismatch has led to many > > > problems that distract us from our purpose as a project in ways > > > including time displacement and low morale. This is despite multiple > > > escalations from our mentors. > > > > > > For reasons of resources, poor experience and cultural > > > incompatibility, I recommend we leave the incubator and re-unify as > > > OpenZipkin again. > > > > > > If you vote -1, it is to remain. Please mention concrete efforts you > > > will take personally to address the problems, and which > > > responsibilities you will take on, if you vote -1. > > > > > > Voting ends 3 days from today, i.e. midnight UTC on 2019-06-17 > > > http://www.timeanddate.com/counters/customcounter.html?year=3D2019&mo= nth=3D > > > 06&day=3D17 > > > > > > [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/zipkin > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org