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From Adrian Cole <adrian.f.c...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: how do we address QuickStart and not asking users to do things laborious
Date Wed, 15 May 2019 16:35:47 GMT
I see.. if this was about the website, I can imagine there is a lot to
do there. We haven't done any content work of note since entering.. it
has all been release engineering in nature. We should track whatever
that is on https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/

thanks for helping me understand!
-A

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:28 AM Ignasi Barrera <nacx@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Reading the issue I see the misunderstanding here.
>
> So, in my feedback in the previous vote there were two points: README
> and website.
>
> The current README looks fine. In this thread, I was referring to the
> Zipkin website. Apologies for the misunderstanding. I'll follow up on
> the issue.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 18:06, Adrian Cole <adrian.f.cole@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I added an issue for the mentors to figure out how to handle your
> > feedback, Ignasi
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin/issues/2597
> >
> > take care,
> > -A
> >
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:36 PM Adrian Cole <adrian.f.cole@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi, Ignasi.
> > >
> > > There have been several mail threads about how voted source is the
> > > only thing official, and that it is important that we build things
> > > from that voted source. For example, these are derived from the
> > > "convenience binaries" also built from the source on the apache
> > > repository. As far as I know there is no requirement to even have a
> > > binary distribution, so I am a bit unclear about this I think if you
> > > look at some email threads on incubator from the last 6 months it
> > > certainly is clear that source is official and almost nothing else is
> > > as clear as that.
> > >
> > > I don't think your advice is practical, in other words. You want us to
> > > point to something that doesn't exist which would only confuse people.
> > >
> > > Is it possible for you to work with mentors or other IPMC to clarify
> > > this and that others are following your strict view routinely?
> > >
> > > -A
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Ignasi Barrera <nacx@apache.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The main problem is that on the current website the Quickstart page is
> > > > the only place with instructions on how to get Zipkin, and it points
> > > > to using, strictly speaking, non-official-release artifacts and
> > > > artifacts that have not been voted upon, such as the Docker image.
> > > >
> > > > The project should have a main Download (or whatever name you prefer)
> > > > page that points to the ASF official release as the main option, with
> > > > links to the official ASF source release, checksums, signature files,
> > > > and some instructions on how to use those files to verify integrity,
> > > > etc. Those files are actually the only ones you as a PMC are strictly
> > > > responsible for. Any other published content is convenience content to
> > > > make users lives easier and should be clearly marked as such in the
> > > > download page.
> > > >
> > > > [some context because understanding the "whys" is important,
> > > > especially for the PMC]
> > > > The reasoning behind this is expectations. Software from the ASF comes
> > > > with a set of guarantees enforced by the use of the Apache License,
> > > > but also with an additional set of "social" guarantees not directly
> > > > provided by the license but enforced by the PMC (project independence,
> > > > neutrality, etc) and how the Foundation expects projects to operate.
> > > > These guarantees are extremely important for people consuming Apache
> > > > software. They are the main value the Foundation provides to end-users
> > > > and we want these expectations to be met by all Apache projects. The
> > > > PMCs are responsible for doing their best to create releases that
> > > > achieve that.
> > > > Since the convenience artifacts cannot be subject to the same diligent
> > > > checks than source releases (for example you are not inspecting
> > > > binaries to check if there is ASLv2 incompatible stuff) we cannot
> > > > provide those guarantees there, thus we don't consider those official
> > > > ASF releases, although we understand convenience and allow to
> > > > distribute them too.
> > > > [/some context]
> > > >
> > > > So, each Apache project should have a Download page explaining how to
> > > > get the software, and the main option there should be how to obtain
> > > > the official artifacts that provide the mentioned above. There can be
> > > > also instructions to get convenience binaries and other ways to get
> > > > and use the software, but the distinction should be clear.
> > > >
> > > > If that page exists (which is not the case now), I see no issue in
> > > > keeping the Quickstart page as-is, as long as we meet the previous
> > > > criteria and Quickstart is seen as "hey, to get the official release
> > > > you can go here, but if you want to start playing with it right away
> > > > you can do this".
> > > >
> > > > Hope this makes sense,
> > > >
> > > > I.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 14:04, Adrian Cole <adrian.f.cole@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi, all. I went to cleanup things mentioned by Ignasi in his last
> > > > > review here: https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/fcc730ad01eb55293f7a174a3b5301f4a277b6222c7bb821d33faf2e@%3Cdev.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> > > > >
> > > > > What is troubling is this one:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Quickstart page should encourage using official releases instead
of
> > > > > master. It is good to have instructions for that, but instructions
on
> > > > > how to build official releases should come first, and using
> > > > > snapshots/devel should be clear marked as non-official ASF releases."
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure what is meant by this. Our quickstart doesn't attempt
to
> > > > > do anything from master, as it takes from latest published maven
> > > > > artifact. [1]
> > > > >
> > > > > Ignasi, can you clarify what you meant? Definitely we want people
to
> > > > > not build on their own as this would lead to more custom servers
which
> > > > > are a terrible support burden.
> > > > >
> > > > > -A
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/blob/master/quickstart.sh#L18
> >
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> >
>
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