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From Adrian Cole <adrian.f.c...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: how do we address QuickStart and not asking users to do things laborious
Date Wed, 15 May 2019 15:36:49 GMT
Hi, Ignasi.

There have been several mail threads about how voted source is the
only thing official, and that it is important that we build things
from that voted source. For example, these are derived from the
"convenience binaries" also built from the source on the apache
repository. As far as I know there is no requirement to even have a
binary distribution, so I am a bit unclear about this I think if you
look at some email threads on incubator from the last 6 months it
certainly is clear that source is official and almost nothing else is
as clear as that.

I don't think your advice is practical, in other words. You want us to
point to something that doesn't exist which would only confuse people.

Is it possible for you to work with mentors or other IPMC to clarify
this and that others are following your strict view routinely?

-A

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Ignasi Barrera <nacx@apache.org> wrote:
>
> The main problem is that on the current website the Quickstart page is
> the only place with instructions on how to get Zipkin, and it points
> to using, strictly speaking, non-official-release artifacts and
> artifacts that have not been voted upon, such as the Docker image.
>
> The project should have a main Download (or whatever name you prefer)
> page that points to the ASF official release as the main option, with
> links to the official ASF source release, checksums, signature files,
> and some instructions on how to use those files to verify integrity,
> etc. Those files are actually the only ones you as a PMC are strictly
> responsible for. Any other published content is convenience content to
> make users lives easier and should be clearly marked as such in the
> download page.
>
> [some context because understanding the "whys" is important,
> especially for the PMC]
> The reasoning behind this is expectations. Software from the ASF comes
> with a set of guarantees enforced by the use of the Apache License,
> but also with an additional set of "social" guarantees not directly
> provided by the license but enforced by the PMC (project independence,
> neutrality, etc) and how the Foundation expects projects to operate.
> These guarantees are extremely important for people consuming Apache
> software. They are the main value the Foundation provides to end-users
> and we want these expectations to be met by all Apache projects. The
> PMCs are responsible for doing their best to create releases that
> achieve that.
> Since the convenience artifacts cannot be subject to the same diligent
> checks than source releases (for example you are not inspecting
> binaries to check if there is ASLv2 incompatible stuff) we cannot
> provide those guarantees there, thus we don't consider those official
> ASF releases, although we understand convenience and allow to
> distribute them too.
> [/some context]
>
> So, each Apache project should have a Download page explaining how to
> get the software, and the main option there should be how to obtain
> the official artifacts that provide the mentioned above. There can be
> also instructions to get convenience binaries and other ways to get
> and use the software, but the distinction should be clear.
>
> If that page exists (which is not the case now), I see no issue in
> keeping the Quickstart page as-is, as long as we meet the previous
> criteria and Quickstart is seen as "hey, to get the official release
> you can go here, but if you want to start playing with it right away
> you can do this".
>
> Hope this makes sense,
>
> I.
>
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 14:04, Adrian Cole <adrian.f.cole@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, all. I went to cleanup things mentioned by Ignasi in his last
> > review here: https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/fcc730ad01eb55293f7a174a3b5301f4a277b6222c7bb821d33faf2e@%3Cdev.zipkin.apache.org%3E
> >
> > What is troubling is this one:
> >
> > "Quickstart page should encourage using official releases instead of
> > master. It is good to have instructions for that, but instructions on
> > how to build official releases should come first, and using
> > snapshots/devel should be clear marked as non-official ASF releases."
> >
> > I'm not sure what is meant by this. Our quickstart doesn't attempt to
> > do anything from master, as it takes from latest published maven
> > artifact. [1]
> >
> > Ignasi, can you clarify what you meant? Definitely we want people to
> > not build on their own as this would lead to more custom servers which
> > are a terrible support burden.
> >
> > -A
> >
> > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/blob/master/quickstart.sh#L18

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