From dev-return-380-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@zipkin.apache.org Thu Feb 14 02:15:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id D4942180674 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 03:15:33 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 3644 invoked by uid 500); 14 Feb 2019 02:15:32 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@zipkin.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@zipkin.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@zipkin.apache.org Received: (qmail 3632 invoked by uid 99); 14 Feb 2019 02:15:32 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:15:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id D8DFA180C32 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:15:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.8 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ss0FF1SPbbYr for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:15:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ot1-f67.google.com (mail-ot1-f67.google.com [209.85.210.67]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id C3E835F67C for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2019 02:15:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-ot1-f67.google.com with SMTP id 32so7904714ota.12 for ; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:15:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=a0EIGoIocvHrkDcgFXoGWSIOyXoKv6ep8vP/1otZs/A=; b=JBazYuAvqh2xnm7SIxZfQVFii0DlL4eIAsFAO5//G1c9jvZ8N4iPItd9a0jnxmn1Jt TMTMgUmJ76va7oUXiMdTUZOWJoVUujkYKXSrwoj14gWZ5LB4BF52vdiiHjtbiwx3bjXQ 0yNtFi3g3JnTUjj1SnYM+iFgHU9wQujgcBjh+7qcDeoX5vvB8bYjQtqHVS4VmdsdtGu1 aEfq7Cu9ioiKxKEx+m2nnGsvK7lR+1/qJql0WNuCQxwJ2QAiR46TG33HM3xCUe3LVpAx VB8dLIJnzEBF+yEdV91pEjxjsq7Wd+qsLDHzPvXnLJf/lZh5ZQkvA41Ja0xft1fQhN4j c01w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=a0EIGoIocvHrkDcgFXoGWSIOyXoKv6ep8vP/1otZs/A=; b=fdNUXWI2oRgVRlali6Xsg7O6S5VIIxb/U6Aj3d9QETb3tw5QKLMW+LLCWiJQllBVS5 97jA0zsVAKpcdMnx/QrDYI/TVcPLm5MByZOkk0wTqAx2ViQzluPapwId6VfvWOcqb60g OBsVME5jyRHgmt2M33fwDofXLs+hNj70wQEVgPIQLs+VJy42e8efbYX24vI0DVX7U8De 29a6C7KBNHaUj2XD7fcp5kTySJVsHwz1bnr3KWo4792tPv81k7PTFo0SSvwiRFxqCAfV iMVOr6vJaSgbsj9idPMF85aBfEawaWZESJHfnJAZKx0bn11CEL84PYQmGGxhisfZ+NxO WVFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAuZe03KCnSc/0QS9RyXTmCqsOC3BMrJ5IrFycv0YY1pd1HEpxX+I rwLHj37EwU4+zpXAla5JPBt/Z+0GnwmxDiTDVLEIGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IYb5tR6XcUPpvWt9zUZ0Y2Ey5rKN6u8taBDsNU1ukDcUYNWtXw/8VUfDNf2uz5OBWSx8/XAHn+GAfkCPvYB6TM= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:76da:: with SMTP id p26mr761648otl.366.1550110529062; Wed, 13 Feb 2019 18:15:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1152619723.20190213210712@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1152619723.20190213210712@gmail.com> From: Adrian Cole Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 10:15:26 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: revisiting if SaaS backends should be Apache repositories To: Andriy Redko Cc: dev@zipkin.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000728d7c0581d13b06" --000000000000728d7c0581d13b06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Currently the biggest technical risk beyond api drift is Google's use of gRPC over ssl. This is not a problem for Amazon. gRPC is a crazy sensitive dependency tree including BoringSSL native drivers. This is very time consuming to debug. Some of this goes away JRE 11+ but the "slim" images provided by openjdk are huge (350MiB where our while image is less than 150) StackDriver adds to that oauth etc. but most support problems have been around grpc unless memory is incorrect. On Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 10:08 AM Andriy Redko Hey Adrian, > > I think this is a difficult choice to make, for any project which faces > similar challenges. > From one perspective, those repos (GCP and X-Ray integration) are valuable > contributions, > the Google Cloud and AWS are very popular platforms so having Zipkin > presence there is > a huge plus. But maintenance wise, as per your concerns, neither Google, > nor Amazon have > interest in supporting it (building own solutions?). I think there are at > least two > questions to ask and, depending on the answers, make a decision: > > 1. Do we have contributors who could / are interested in maintaning the > projects? > 2. Any risks that at some point, Google or Amazon would make the > integration difficult / impossible? > > We may ask Google or Amazon folks, as you suggested, if they could help us > out. If not, could we > involve community members? If there is no interest, we probably are better > off not moving them. > > Thanks. > > Best Regards, > Andriy Redko > > > AC> Hi, folks. > > AC> SaaS providers such as Google, routinely change their apis and not > AC> always is the support good when that occurs. Many have an agenda to > AC> use their own native clients as well (regardless of naming prefix). > AC> Controlled ecosystems, whether that's private apis or golden path to > AC> 3rd party libraries can be tricky. While Amazon and Google currently > AC> don't actively try to stop Zipkin ecosystem, we hardly ever get any > AC> support from either. Notably, the GCP repository has had numerous > AC> complaints and while Google originally helped write it, they no longer > AC> help. > > AC> All this in mind.. should we move repos like this into the ASF? > AC> Notably, the google one is more troubling support wise, but also the > AC> Amazon X-Ray component of the aws project has been incomplete for > AC> years. OTOH, notably in zipkin-aws, there are many stable used things, > AC> like SQS transport. > > AC> I think the tension is around lack of support around cloud tracing > AC> backends and this causes a bad user experience. > > AC> What do you think? If we did move the SaaS backends into Apache, what > AC> could we ask google or amazon for to ensure their health? When would > AC> we delete these backends if they drifted and ceased to help? > > AC> For consideration, the last wiki I wrote on this topic is here > AC> https://github.com/Netflix/denominator/wiki/Adding-new-Providers > AC> -A > > AC> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > AC> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@zipkin.apache.org > AC> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@zipkin.apache.org > > > --000000000000728d7c0581d13b06--