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From Glen Mazza <gma...@apache.org>
Subject Re: removing votes from committers
Date Mon, 15 May 2006 16:56:01 GMT
Jeremias Maerki wrote:

>Only problem: ASF policy overrules any charter we give ourselves. It was
>even repeatedly said on member lists that project charters are
>unnecessary which I agree today since the general policy document has
>improved a lot since last year.
OK then--providing the Apache Board has a generic (hopefully 
lawyer-generated also) charter good for all the projects, I think we 
should officially nullify our own project charter--get rid of it.  For 
legal reasons, it doesn't help to have two charters that conflict with 
each other.  The PMC members can vote to void it.

>> Further, if the Apache boards finds committer voting to be so 
>>reprehensible, why did they approve our charter then, which explicitly 
>>calls for that?
>You need to keep in mind that a lot of policy stuff has been clarified
>in the last 12 months. 
Sure, that's normal, that happens.

>> Also, the Apache Board will need 
>>to be sufficiently mortified by committer voting that it will declare 
>>the XML Graphics charter to be null and void.  Failing that, according 
>>to the charter, you will need to run a vote among the PMC members (of 
>>which I am not one, nor plan to join for this vote) to remove votes from 
>>committers.  Until then, the charter has to remain in force, with 
>>committers continuing to vote on subproject-related matters.
>As I said above, ASF policy comes first. The charter was built on some
>assumptions which turned out to be wrong after the clarifications. What
>we obviously need to do (and which I failed to recognize) is to amend
>our charter so it is in line with ASF policy.
I don't think amending it is the best option--because what happens if 
they fall out of sync again?  Best to void the document entirely, but if 
we have to retain it, then to explicitly state the "any ASF policy 
overriding this charter takes precedence" and to *remove* any provision 
(such as the roles of PMC members and committers) that the ASF already 
has predefined.  Just updating the charter provisions to bring them in 
line with current ASF policy still leaves vague which has precedence.


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