Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-xmlgraphics-fop-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-xmlgraphics-fop-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id ECAAC7FC1 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:10:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 63833 invoked by uid 500); 14 Sep 2011 15:10:00 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-xmlgraphics-fop-dev-archive@xmlgraphics.apache.org Received: (qmail 63808 invoked by uid 500); 14 Sep 2011 15:10:00 -0000 Mailing-List: contact fop-dev-help@xmlgraphics.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Received: (qmail 63801 invoked by uid 99); 14 Sep 2011 15:10:00 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:10:00 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_NEUTRAL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: neutral (athena.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [209.85.213.54] (HELO mail-yw0-f54.google.com) (209.85.213.54) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:09:54 +0000 Received: by ywp17 with SMTP id 17so2285650ywp.27 for ; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.42.158.138 with SMTP id h10mr1596871icx.103.1316012973132; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:09:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.175.135 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Sep 2011 08:09:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20110914164228.DA17.60BA733C@jeremias-maerki.ch> References: <20110914085452.DA01.60BA733C@jeremias-maerki.ch> <20110914164228.DA17.60BA733C@jeremias-maerki.ch> From: Glenn Adams Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:09:13 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r1169766 - /xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba1efc36c88bf904ace82588 --90e6ba1efc36c88bf904ace82588 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ok, that's a reasonable argument for not attempting to track in line; btw, it would be nice to convert to GIT some time as the primary repo On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 8:42 AM, Jeremias Maerki wr= ote: > On 14.09.2011 15:07:11 Glenn Adams wrote: > > i don't understand why they should be removed even if replaced by a > common > > list: > > First of all because of a ASF board recommendation: > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_= 02_18.txt > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_= 09_22.txt > > And seeing how many ASF projects follow that, it can be considered a > majority opinion around here. > > > (1) citing authors in the source files they contribute helps future > efforts > > to research issues > > That's a job SVN and ViewVC are much better at. > > > (2) citing authors in the source files they contribute helps in > addressing > > any IPR issues that might arise > > Again, SVN does it much better. > > > (3) moving author citations to a common list will likely result in a > > disconnect between the author and the works they contributed, as the > binding > > will tend to be lost > > That's basically one intention behind it. There shall be no "gardens" > where some people don't dare touch because there is a strong bond > between a piece of code and its creator. Still, SVN/ViewVC can make the > connection where necessary. > > > (4) where is the harm in citing authors in the original contributions? > > See (3). And over time, other people work on the code. Over FOP's almost > 12 years, many dozens of people contributed to FOP, changing this and > that. So that initial information in the code gets more and more > inaccurate, especially if these people don't add their own names. Can > you still tell after a few years which lines really come from the > original author (just from looking at the source code)? Where we always > retain contributor information is the SVN commit message. Every > contribution from a non-committer has to be annotated with the > contributors name. So it's all in Subversion. > > Take this, for example: > > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/xmlgraphics/fop/branches/Temp_ComplexScripts= /src/java/org/apache/fop/area/Block.java?view=3Dannotate > (lines 135-142, spepping rev 1136144) > > It says "spepping" because he applied your patch, but if you follow the > revision number, you'll find this: > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=3Drevision&revision=3D1136144 > > So it's all documented who changed what. If everyone followed the old > CVS pattern of "Submitted by: ", we could even > automatically extract a contributor list from SVN. > > > overall, i don't see any upside to removing them, but only downside > > No information is lost. But it reduces redundancy and increases fairness. > > Anyway, no need to restart the discussions about the pros and cons here. > There were enough heated ones all over the place in 2003/2004. The > following search tells the story well: > http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=3Dauthor%20tags > > > if I were a voting member in this PMC, I would vote -1 > > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Jeremias Maerki < > dev@jeremias-maerki.ch>wrote: > > > > > +1 in general on removing author tags (it's a board recommendation > after > > > all). But strong -1 on removing them without adding them to some > central > > > list of contributors. > > > > > > On 12.09.2011 16:27:26 vhennebert wrote: > > > > Author: vhennebert > > > > Date: Mon Sep 12 14:27:25 2011 > > > > New Revision: 1169766 > > > > > > > > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=3D1169766&view=3Drev > > > > Log: > > > > Bugzilla #51790: source file contains non-ascii character > > > > Removed @author tags > > > > > > > > Modified: > > > > > > > > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java > > > > > > > > Modified: > > > > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java > > > > URL: > > > > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fo= p/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java?rev=3D1169766&r1=3D1169765&r2=3D1169766&view= =3Ddiff > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > --- > > > > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java > > > (original) > > > > +++ > > > > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandler.java = Mon > > > Sep 12 14:27:25 2011 > > > > @@ -132,12 +132,6 @@ import org.apache.fop.render.rtf.rtflib. > > > > /** > > > > * RTF Handler: generates RTF output using the structure events fr= om > > > > * the FO Tree sent to this structure handler. > > > > - * > > > > - * @author Bertrand Delacretaz > > > > - * @author Trembicki-Guy, Ed > > > > - * @author Boris Poud=C3=83=C2=A9rous > > > > - * @author Peter Herweg > > > > - * @author Andreas Putz > > > > */ > > > > public class RTFHandler extends FOEventHandler { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeremias Maerki > > > > > > > > > > > Jeremias Maerki > > --90e6ba1efc36c88bf904ace82588 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ok, that's a reasonable argument for not attempting to track in line;
btw, it would be nice to convert to GIT some time as the = primary repo

On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 = at 8:42 AM, Jeremias Maerki <dev@jeremias-maerki.ch> wrote:
On 14.09.2011 15:07:11 Gl= enn Adams wrote:
> i don't understand why they should be removed even if replaced by = a common
> list:

First of all because of a ASF board recommendation:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/reco= rds/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_02_18.txt
http://www.apache.org/foundation/reco= rds/minutes/2004/board_minutes_2004_09_22.txt

And seeing how many ASF projects follow that, it can be considered a
majority opinion around here.

> (1) citing authors in the source files they contribute helps future ef= forts
> to research issues

That's a job SVN and ViewVC are much better at.

> (2) citing authors in the source files they contribute helps in addres= sing
> any IPR issues that might arise

Again, SVN does it much better.

> (3) moving author citations to a common list will likely result in a > disconnect between the author and the works they contributed, as the b= inding
> will tend to be lost

That's basically one intention behind it. There shall be no "= ;gardens"
where some people don't dare touch because there is a strong bond
between a piece of code and its creator. Still, SVN/ViewVC can make the
connection where necessary.

> (4) where is the harm in citing authors in the original contributions?=

See (3). And over time, other people work on the code. Over FOP's= almost
12 years, many dozens of people contributed to FOP, changing this and
that. So that initial information in the code gets more and more
inaccurate, especially if these people don't add their own names. Can you still tell after a few years which lines really come from the
original author (just from looking at the source code)? Where we always
retain contributor information is the SVN commit message. Every
contribution from a non-committer has to be annotated with the
contributors name. So it's all in Subversion.

Take this, for example:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/xmlgraphics/fop/branches/Temp_Comp= lexScripts/src/java/org/apache/fop/area/Block.java?view=3Dannotate
(lines 135-142, spepping rev 1136144)

It says "spepping" because he applied your patch, but if you foll= ow the
revision number, you'll find this:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=3Drevision&rev= ision=3D1136144

So it's all documented who changed what. If everyone followed the old CVS pattern of "Submitted by: <contributor>", we could even=
automatically extract a contributor list from SVN.

> overall, i don't see any upside to removing them, but only downsid= e

No information is lost. But it reduces redundancy and increases fairn= ess.

Anyway, no need to restart the discussions about the pros and cons here. There were enough heated ones all over the place in 2003/2004. The
following search tells the story well:
http://apache.markmail.org/search/?q=3Dauthor%20tags

> if I were a voting member in this PMC, I would vote -1
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Jeremias Maerki <dev@jeremias-maerki.ch>wrote:
>
> > +1 in general on removing author tags (it's a board recommend= ation after
> > all). But strong -1 on removing them without adding them to some = central
> > list of contributors.
> >
> > On 12.09.2011 16:27:26 vhennebert wrote:
> > > Author: vhennebert
> > > Date: Mon Sep 12 14:27:25 2011
> > > New Revision: 1169766
> > >
> > > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=3D1169766= &view=3Drev
> > > Log:
> > > Bugzilla #51790: source file contains non-ascii character > > > Removed @author tags
> > >
> > > Modified:
> > >
> > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandl= er.java
> > >
> > > Modified:
> > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandl= er.java
> > > URL:
> > http://svn.apache.o= rg/viewvc/xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandl= er.java?rev=3D1169766&r1=3D1169765&r2=3D1169766&view=3Ddiff=
> > >
> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> > > ---
> > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandl= er.java
> > (original)
> > > +++
> > xmlgraphics/fop/trunk/src/java/org/apache/fop/render/rtf/RTFHandl= er.java Mon
> > Sep 12 14:27:25 2011
> > > @@ -132,12 +132,6 @@ import org.apache.fop.render.rtf.rtflib= .
> > > =C2=A0/**
> > > =C2=A0 * RTF Handler: generates RTF output using the structu= re events from
> > > =C2=A0 * the FO Tree sent to this structure handler.
> > > - *
> > > - * @author Bertrand Delacretaz <bdelacretaz@codeconsult.ch>
> > > - * @author Trembicki-Guy, Ed <GuyE@DNB.com>
> > > - * @author Boris Poud=C3=83=C2=A9rous <boris.pouderous@eads-telecom.com>=
> > > - * @author Peter Herweg <pherweg@web.de>
> > > - * @author Andreas Putz <a.putz@skynamics.com>
> > > =C2=A0 */
> > > =C2=A0public class RTFHandler extends FOEventHandler {
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Jeremias Maerki
> >
> >




Jeremias Maerki


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