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Subject: RE: XMLBeans ready to exit incubation?
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:52:59 -0700
Message-ID: <4C2F1577F2EF2840A9AE9EC61860C881976BBF@usseex01.amer.bea.com>
Thread-Topic: XMLBeans ready to exit incubation?
Thread-Index: AcRTzPqy1MUMC+NkQ86sAKMwbH2C0AAAyZyw
From: "Cliff Schmidt" <cliff@bea.com>
To: <xmlbeans-dev@xml.apache.org>

Noah Campbell wrote on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 11:07 AM:

> Since I saw the presentation at eWorld, I was eager to participate
> however I found the external facing documentation is a bit sparse and
> the TODO list is pretty weak. =20

I assume you aren't referring to the TODO list that simply for =
incubation,
as opposed to the issues and bugs in JIRA.  IMO, JIRA should be the TODO
list that drives development, although we could probably do more.  We=20
also have an FAQ and a growing number of "mini-specs" to help people get
figure out enough to be able to make useful contributions.

> I'm curious how the project is run at
> BEA?  Is a gap between XMLBeans the "BEA team" vs XMLBeans the "Apache
> project" and if so is that due to BEA members communicating and short
> circuiting the community all together.

I think, for the most part, each committer tends to have one or two=20
areas that they focus on (like Eric's work on the store, or Dutta's=20
interest in investigation of XQuery options).  The short circuiting
you are referring to is something BEA folks are very sensitive to not
do -- we're not all perfect at it, but we try to have all discussions=20
on these public lists.  If it ever appears to you that we've made
some behind-the-scenes decision, you should call us on it; but I don't
expect that will happen very often.

> Apache may have had the foresight to see that a certain level of
> committer diversity indirectly strengthens the communication around
> the project.  If this is the case, then XMLBeans needs to make sure
> they have the required number of committers before it can leave.
>=20
> If I remember correctly, one more committer was needed. =20

Now that the Incubator community is reconsidering the 50% rule, we
are no longer in the position where we need one more non-BEA person
just to leave the incubator.  Under the 50% rule, we had two choices:
1) rush the normal process of adding this last committer, since all
other exit criteria was complete, or 2) remain in the incubator for
as long as it takes to bring on a committer through the typical=20
process. IMO, neither of these options were the right thing to do.

> I would love
> to volunteer to the project and hopefully get committer status but
> I've been hovering around the sidelines because I can't tell what
> needs to be done.  Maybe I'm missing the point because I'm not a
> committer anywhere else so please point me in the right direction.

I'm sure everyone would love to help you to start contributing to=20
the project, and we need to have another discussion (probably on a
different thread on the dev list) about what you're interested in
and what would help push XMLBeans forward.  However, becoming a=20
committer is something that we would discuss more after you (or
anyone) has made a sustained series of contributions to the project.

> XMLBeans is a great product.  I look forward to v2.

that's great to hear!

> On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 10:50:09 -0700, Cliff Schmidt <cliff@bea.com>
> wrote:=20
>>=20
>> Noel J. Bergman wrote on Monday, June 14, 2004 11:46 PM:
>>=20
>>> Understanding that "BEA has absolutely no intention of dropping
>>> support of the XMLBeans project", do you feel that XMLBeans is ready
>>> to leave the Incubator, or would it benefit from further stay?  How
>>> do others in the community feel?
>>=20
>> Hey Community (-dev and -user list folks),
>>=20
>> We've been talking on the incubator general list about criteria for
>> exiting the incubator, and Noel posed the questions above.  We're
>> all reconsidering whether it really is necessary to have a rule that
>> states that no one organization can have more than 50% of the initial
>> committers, as long as there are at least three independent voices
>> and the community seems to be working out.
>>=20
>> IMO, XMLBeans has been going pretty well, especially in the last few
>> months.  We've gotten a lot of outside contributions, the committers
>> have been pretty responsive to the user community, and we've
>> diversified the committer list over the last few months.  While I
>> think we could go further in these directions, I feel like XMLBeans
>> is ready to request graduation from the incubator for two reasons:
>> 1) XMLBeans is a good example of an Apache project and well on its
>> way to being even better -- in other words, "good for Apache".
>> 2) XMLBeans no longer needs the incubator community to figure out
>> how to build a community and figure out logistic issues.
>>=20
>> So, these are just my opinions, but I'm hoping to hear from others
>> out there (particularly the non-BEA members of the community).
>>=20
>> Are we ready to leave incubation?
>>=20
>> Cliff
>>=20
>> -
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>>=20
>>=20
>=20
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