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From robert burrell donkin <rdon...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Start-with-java annotations
Date Tue, 18 Nov 2003 22:28:02 GMT
On 14 Nov 2003, at 23:57, Patrick Calahan wrote:


> I defintely agree that this case could result in some unwieldy 
> schemas, although I do think it's possible to imagine mechanisms for 
> dealing with this problem.  However, even absent such a mechanism, the 
> fact remains that, for better or worse, there is a large set of java 
> programmers out there who
> 1) want to use XML for object serialization
> 2) might care a little bit what their XML documents looks like
> 3) want to express validation constraints in a way that is natural to 
> them (java)
> 4) don't understand schema and really don't care what their schemas 
> look like
> The popularity of Castor, which does not even generate schemas from 
> Java at all, is a good case in point.  I don't think we should neglect 
> the opportunity to build features that will bring some of these users 
> into the xbeans fold.

FWIW a couple of obesrvations (IMHO, of course):

1. castor is very widely used but not as widely liked by developers as 
it's usage suggests. (i think that it loses a lot from being a general 
mapping tool rather than a specialist xml one.)
2. it's not really object serialization but round trip mapping that 
developers want. in fact, i think that attempting object serialization 
is positively harmful.
3. developers are starting to care more about the schemas than they 
used to.

maybe point 2 needs a little expansion: serialization must be 
essentially lose-less in a java sense. i'd say that object round 
tripping means being able to go from a symantically meaningful object 
graph to an (easily) human readable (and symantically meaningful) xml 
document and then back to an object graph which is equivalent to the 

- robert

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