Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-xml-general-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 50796 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2004 00:29:04 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur-2.apache.org with SMTP; 13 Jul 2004 00:29:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 3962 invoked by uid 500); 13 Jul 2004 00:29:00 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-xml-general-archive@xml.apache.org Received: (qmail 3868 invoked by uid 500); 13 Jul 2004 00:28:59 -0000 Mailing-List: contact general-help@xml.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: list-post: Reply-To: general@xml.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list general@xml.apache.org Received: (qmail 3855 invoked by uid 99); 13 Jul 2004 00:28:59 -0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.0 required=10.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received: from [203.12.160.101] (HELO mail5.tpgi.com.au) (203.12.160.101) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.27.1) with ESMTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:28:55 -0700 Received: from tpg.com.au (203-219-30-142-bri-ts7-2600.tpgi.com.au [203.219.30.142]) by mail5.tpgi.com.au (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i6D0Shtd021939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:28:48 +1000 Message-ID: <40F32CBA.3010903@tpg.com.au> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:28:42 +1000 From: "Peter B. West" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040124 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: general@xml.apache.org Subject: Re: Voting a PMC chair References: <20040711211802.EC5B.DEV.JEREMIAS@greenmail.ch> <40F1BF2C.6050506@tpg.com.au> <20040712223437.C698.DEV.JEREMIAS@greenmail.ch> In-Reply-To: <20040712223437.C698.DEV.JEREMIAS@greenmail.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-TPG-Antivirus: Passed X-Virus-Checked: Checked X-Spam-Rating: minotaur-2.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Thanks Jeremias. See below. Jeremias Maerki wrote: > On 12.07.2004 00:29:00 Peter B. West wrote: > >>One wonders, however, whether the Board will then require the XML >>Graphics subprojects to become TLPs. > > > The main goal is to reestablish oversight over the projects. A PMC must > be involved in the release process, for example, which the XML PMC can't > be. If XML Graphics grows too big for us, we will have to split up again. > For now, however, I think Batik and FOP are in a similar boat, having a > good and functional codebase with a sizeable user base but laming a bit > on the development side. The new PMC will only have to care about two > subprojects (and a bit of shared code) which should be doable. .... My problem with this has always been that the Board is creating a flat structure of continually increasing breadth. The effect of that is two-fold: 1) the Board exercises increasingly ineffective oversight of the TLPs, by virtue of their number, and 2) the natural hierarchies, in particular XML, are fragmented. The "Federation" is a beast without portfolio, whereas the Board and the PMC are formal structures. If the Apache charter mandates the Board, Projects and PMCs, why not change the charter to reflect the hierarchical reality. Make Subprojects and SPMCs formal entities, with reporting responsibilities to their parent Project/PMCs. Allow SPMCs to exercise the code and release oversight currently residing in the PMCs. That is, let the charter reflect the reality of experience. Another old argument. Peter -- Peter B. West --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org