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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: CMS requirements project, how to do it?
Date Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:05:02 GMT
Robert Koberg wrote:

> What if the apache powers granted some resources to (interesting) fledgling
> projects.  For example cms could use:
> - discuss-cms - mailling list to shake out needs/requirements/resources/etc
> ----- currently using a yahoo group
> - CVS repository to hold text (XML) documents to describe the project
> ----- there is a place for group-docs on yahoo, but no CVS - maybe not a big
> deal??)
> ----- no code in this repository.
> - cms.apache.org as a place to advertise to the public

No, even if I want this to happen, it will have to take *much* more
inertia than a ton of ideas and a yahoo group to bootstrap another
'project' (read 'virtual host' not software effort) under Apache.

And no, Cocoon is no CMS, nor it will ever be (by itself, it's already
part of many).

And no, Apache doesn't help bootstrap communities anymore: we don't have
the energy for this and there are tons of places (read sourceforge)
where it's easy and cheap to create new communities.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not stating that this isn't the place for such a
thing to reside (hell, no, I want a decent XML-based CMS so bad!) but
that isn't the right place to 'start' it.

we have no 'incubator' for new efforts because, otherwise, we'll have no
way to objectively judge the 'quality' of the ideas and the people's

So, either we accept everybody (and we dilute our brand and our quality,
becoming like sourceforge) or we choose based on personal judgement (and
people will get mad since we are humans and make mistakes!)

So, how do you stay neutral and yet provide a good service and yet be
able to grow?

Software Darwinism: if your ideas and your software (or mine, being an
ASF member doesn't change a bit!) are good enough to bloom in the wild
(and we have a clear definition of what 'bloom' means, see below), then
you are entitled to enter and share the place with what's already in...
this because we know that as much energy you'll earn from the Apache
vibisility, you'll give back multiplied by your effort.

So, in order to be allowed you need:

 1) at least two (jakarta is proposing to higher the level at three!)
active developers with diverse affiliation
 2) a working codebase (doesn't have to be perfect, but it must be
something that I can download and play with)
 3) an ASF members that sponsors the merging (and makes sure the
community gets well integrated with the right spirit).

So, until you have those three (you can count for me on #3, but that's
as much as I can do), there is no way you can make it into the ASF.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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