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From "Robert Koberg" <...@koberg.com>
Subject Re: CMS requirements project, how to do it?
Date Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:38:07 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <stefano@apache.org>

> Robert Koberg wrote:
> > What if the apache powers granted some resources to (interesting)
> > projects.  For example cms could use:
> > - discuss-cms - mailling list to shake out
> > ----- currently using a yahoo group
> > - CVS repository to hold text (XML) documents to describe the project
> > ----- there is a place for group-docs on yahoo, but no CVS - maybe not a
> > deal??)
> > ----- no code in this repository.
> > - cms.apache.org as a place to advertise to the public
> No, even if I want this to happen, it will have to take *much* more
> inertia than a ton of ideas and a yahoo group to bootstrap another
> 'project' (read 'virtual host' not software effort) under Apache.

makes perfect sense, thought it was worth a shot :)

> And no, Cocoon is no CMS, nor it will ever be (by itself, it's already
> part of many).
> And no, Apache doesn't help bootstrap communities anymore: we don't have
> the energy for this and there are tons of places (read sourceforge)
> where it's easy and cheap to create new communities.

I guess what I was looking for was a general-cms like general-xml (with a
docroot and cvs :), not a particular project.
On sourceforge: since we don't have a real 'project' (yet) just the
understanding that we are coming together to clarify what a CMS is, what it
should do, what it is not, etc., I don't think we can get put on there

The main benefit is CVS for doc revs, but maybe we can work that out without
a patron.

> Don't get me wrong: I'm not stating that this isn't the place for such a
> thing to reside (hell, no, I want a decent XML-based CMS so bad!) but
> that isn't the right place to 'start' it.


> we have no 'incubator' for new efforts because, otherwise, we'll have no
> way to objectively judge the 'quality' of the ideas and the people's
> spirit.
> So, either we accept everybody (and we dilute our brand and our quality,
> becoming like sourceforge) or we choose based on personal judgement (and
> people will get mad since we are humans and make mistakes!)
> So, how do you stay neutral and yet provide a good service and yet be
> able to grow?
> Software Darwinism: if your ideas and your software (or mine, being an
> ASF member doesn't change a bit!) are good enough to bloom in the wild
> (and we have a clear definition of what 'bloom' means, see below), then
> you are entitled to enter and share the place with what's already in...
> this because we know that as much energy you'll earn from the Apache
> vibisility, you'll give back multiplied by your effort.
> So, in order to be allowed you need:
>  1) at least two (jakarta is proposing to higher the level at three!)
> active developers with diverse affiliation
>  2) a working codebase (doesn't have to be perfect, but it must be
> something that I can download and play with)
>  3) an ASF members that sponsors the merging (and makes sure the
> community gets well integrated with the right spirit).
> So, until you have those three (you can count for me on #3, but that's
> as much as I can do), there is no way you can make it into the ASF.

Excellent! Hopefully more people can participate over at the yahoo group
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contentmanagementgroup/) and this thing can
move through it's paces.


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