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From "Robert Koberg" <...@koberg.com>
Subject Re: axkit and patents (fwd)
Date Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:20:08 GMT
this (taken from: http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/knuth-to-pto.txt):
-----
When I think of the computer programs I require daily to get my own
work done, I cannot help but realize that none of them would exist
today if software patents had been prevalent in the 1960s and 1970s.
Changing the rules now will have the effect of freezing progress at
essentially its current level.  If present trends continue, the only
recourse available to the majority of America's brilliant software
developers will be to give up software or to emigrate.
-----
will never develop empathy! They are using things like aol and MSWord and
wonder why you would need anything else.
They probabl see this as a total fringe group that they can shrug off
(perhaps they can?)

you have to play the game...




----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Finneran" <rob@digitalskyscrapers.com>
To: <general@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: axkit and patents (fwd)


> If any of you are interested in such topics check out:
>
> http://lpf.ai.mit.edu/Patents/patents.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.freepatents.org (Richard Stallman's site)
>
> Cheers!
>
> Rob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Koberg [mailto:rob@koberg.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:51 PM
> To: general@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: axkit and patents (fwd)
>
>
> maybe apache could use the aclu to splatter patents on little cogs in the
> wheel???
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Finneran" <rob@digitalskyscrapers.com>
> To: <general@xml.apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:42 PM
> Subject: RE: axkit and patents (fwd)
>
>
> > FYI:
> >
> > >From an article in "Think" magazine, #5, 1990.
> >
> >     "You get value from patents in two ways," says Roger Smith, IBM
> >     Assistant General Counsel, intellectual property law.  "Through
fees,
> >     and through licensing negotiations that give IBM access to other
> >     patents.
> >
> >     "The IBM patent portfolio gains us the freedom to do what we need to
> >     do through cross-licensing--it gives us access to the inventions of
> >     others that are the key to rapid innovation.  Access is far more
> >     valuable to IBM than the fees it receives from its 9,000 active
> >     patents.  There's no direct calculation of this value, but it's many
> >     times larger than the fee income, perhaps an order of magnitude
> >     larger."
> >
> > This article should dispell the idea that the patent system will
> > "protect" a small software developer from competition from IBM.  IBM
> > can always find patents in its collection which the small developer is
> > infringing, and thus obtain a cross-license.
> >
> > However, the patent system does cause trouble for the smaller
> > companies which, like IBM, need access to patented techniques in order
> > to do useful work in software.  Unlike IBM, the smaller companies do
> > not have 9,000 patents and cannot usually get a cross-license.  No
> > matter how hard they try, they cannot amass enough patents to defend
> > themselves.
> >
> > How much trouble do patents typically cause?  The value IBM gets from
> > cross-licensing measures the trouble that the patent system would
> > cause IBM if IBM could not avoid it.  IBM's estimate is that the
> > trouble could easily be ten times the good one can expect from one's
> > own patents--even for a company with 9,000 of them.
> >
> > For IBM, this trouble is hypothetical--cross-licensing prevents it
> > from happening.  For ordinary companies which cannot do likewise, the
> > burden is real.  IBM's estimate suggests that for a typical software
> > company, patents will do ten times as much harm as good.  Only the
> > elimination of patents from the software field can enable most
> > software developers to continue with their work.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert Finneran [mailto:rob@digitalskyscrapers.com]
> > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 12:17 PM
> > To: general@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: axkit and patents (fwd)
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think the tech community needs to take a stand against this kind of
> > outrageous behavior. I cannot believe that Sun does not understand that
> this
> > patent application is just plain wrong. I don't even have to explain why
> > this is wrong, just read the text of it.
> >
> > The worse part is that those idiots over in the patent office are likely
> to
> > approve the patent. Making patent mistakes helps evolve patent law. The
> > trouble is, challenging a patent usually costs millions of dollars. It's
a
> > game only rich companies can play.
> >
> > Someday I hope that software engineers wake up to the threat of their
> > freedom. Soon the only protection you will have against this sort of
abuse
> > of the free market system is to only work for major corporations who can
> > afford to play in this arena. They cross-license each other's patents to
> > create oligopolies that can "legally" restrain free trade. Independent
> > software companies without vast patent portfolios of their own will not
> have
> > anything to trade in settlement negotiations.
> >
> > Is this simply a paranoid view of our trade? I think not. Look at the
> > evidence.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Sergeant [mailto:matt@sergeant.org]
> > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 11:50 AM
> > To: general@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: axkit and patents (fwd)
> >
> >
> > Looks like Sun are trying to Patent what AxKit and Cocoon can do. We
need
> > to make sure the patent office knows of the prior art on this. Do we
have
> > people who do that sort of thing?
> >
> > --
> > <!-- Matt -->
> > <:->Get a smart net</:->
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:39:30 +0000
> > From: Sebastian Rahtz <sebastian.rahtz@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
> > To: "axkit-users@axkit.org" <axkit-users@axkit.org>
> > Subject: axkit and patents
> >
> > have y'all seen this arrant nonsense from Sun?
> > http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/viewer?PN=WO0163481&CY=ep&LG=en&DB=EPD
> > describes a patent application which is a trivial AxKit
> > operation.....
> > --
> > Sebastian Rahtz      OUCS Information Manager
> > 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN. Phone +44 1865 283431
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
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