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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [OT] Design Rant
Date Thu, 20 Dec 2001 00:02:35 GMT
giacomo wrote:

> > > Using a CSS-based layout also means that people using 4th generation
> > > browsers (NS 4, IE 4, etc.) must be "protected" from such a stylesheet
> > > or they will see utter garbage. Hiding the CSS from them means that they
> > > won't be able to appreciate the layout, but will nonetheless be able to
> > > read the full *content*, just not very well styled. But come on, this is
> > > a site devoted to *developers* developing for the Web. Can you imagine a
> > > web developer today using ONLY NS4 or IE4?
> 
> I know that not only developers view the apache sites. 

Correct. In fact, the apache sites should target users (I mean people
that *use* our technology to implement something), developers (those
that actually *develop* our software) and lurkers (those that don't fit
in the other categories: i.e. managers, journalists, politicians, your
mom and what not)

> I've been told
> that system administrators go here as well because the developers in
> their company like to use open source in their own software and thus the
> administrators want to know more about what they will face to
> administer.

Right, but as long as Lynx works well on our pages (and it will work
even better if we use CSS instead of HTML positional hacks)
 
> I know of manager visiting the sites to verify we told them the truth
> about open source, licensing, cool projects when we do evangelize OS
> products to them.
> 
> Those people are not on the edge of the technology (read use
> IE6/NS6.2/Mozilla browsers). They have corporate PCs with the software
> someone else has installed there and they usually are not able to change
> that.

CSS2 works decently well (besides a few bugs and missing
functionalities) on IE 5.0+ and on Netscape 6.0+

The only client that is not CSS-capable is NS4.

> I don't want to say we shouldn't go the CSS way, but we might not be
> able in all cases to show our cool sites (in terms of technology used)
> to the ones having something to say in companies where others here like
> to bring in OS software.

Absolutely.

> I know my own customers which are still using IE4 and NS4 (both have
> very diffrent implementation of CSS features)

Here is what I propose: since Sam volunteered to digest and process the
logs, why don't we come out with the percentage of people that have
non-compliant CSS2 browsers and decide with the numbers on the table?

I'd also love to see the trend, so I'd process each month separately for
the last 6 months and show a table with the results.

Sam, can we count on you for this? it would be very useful to avoid some
heat here.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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