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From "Frans Thamura" <fth4m...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Improving the Apache XML site
Date Fri, 14 Dec 2001 02:16:02 GMT
and don't forget to put the source code in the web site...

+1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Theodore W. Leung" <twleung@sauria.com>
To: <general@xml.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: Improving the Apache XML site


> +10
>
> You can definitely do the Cocoon stuff way faster than I can, since I
> haven't looked at 2.0 at all.
>
> On Wed, 2001-12-12 at 02:27, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > I've read the 'xml-deviant' column on xml.com and found it extremely
> > interesting for a couple of reasons:
> >
> >  1) it's an xml-centric and non-apache-centric view of this project
> >  2) it's a user-centric, show-me-the-stuff-that-I-need perspective
> >
> > Now, from that perspective, our site sucks. Big time.
> >
> >  1) it's slow and heavy, for no reason [this is fixed with the new
> > layout]
> >  2) it's sub-project oriented: gives no overview of the Apache XML
> > Project
> >
> > Overall impression: it's a rusty container.
> >
> > Why should I (user) trust the technologies it contains?
> >
> >                                     - o -
> >
> > I personally volunteer to change this and improve it because I don't
> > want people coming to xml.apache.org to stop there, I want them to keep
> > on getting back and visit our site.
> >
> > Here is the plan:
> >
> >  1) change the layout in order to speed up the browsing experience
> >     [this is done with the new layout]
> >
> >  2) revamp and rewrite the common sections
> >
> >  3) place a newscolumn and a project status column on the homepage (just
> > like I did several years ago for java.apache.org, go there and take a
> > look)
> >
> >  4) write the "evolutionary software map" along with explainations on
> > where to find stuff, overlap between them, reasons for this overlap,
> > community directions and all this.
> >
> > Cocoon will generate the site.
> >
> > I will write a script (probably an Ant build file) that will gather the
> > XML documents from the various CVS modules and then run Cocoon on top of
> > those to generate the site and place it live.
>
> Please do this as an ant build file.  Another goal of this should be to
> deprecate xml-site.  From working on the layout I found that very few
> projects are using it.   Ideally, a cron job would rebuild the site.
>
>
> I'm willing to help with the content but I just haven't had the time to
> get up to speed on Cocoon to take the next step.  Thank you for stepping
> in!
>
> > Then I'll write a section of the site that explains how this works and
> > where to modify stuff for making it appear there.
> >
> > The goals are:
> >
> >  1) users must have the impression that the site is 'live' and well
> > maintained
> >  2) users must have the feeling of the quality of our software from the
> > site
> >  3) users must find it useful to get back frequently to the site
> >  4) users must find it interesting to explore the site and discover our
> > technologies but without requiring deep interaction with the code in
> > order to get a feeling of it.
> >
> > I also have a personal itch to scratch: I would like to have a simple
> > way to know the following information from all the different projects:
> >
> >  downloads:
> >  - downloads per version per week
> >  - total downloads per version
> >
> >  mail messages:
> >  - mail messages per mail list per week
> >  - total mail messages per mail list
> >
> >  mail list subscribers:
> >  - subscribers per mail list per week
> >  - total subscribers per mail list
> >
> >  CVS commits:
> >  - CVS commits per module per week
> >  - total CVS commits per module
> >
> > The idea is to have a cron-ed script (Perl?) running weekly (on sunday)
> > on the apache servers that append this data in comma-separated files,
> > for example (numbers are invented):
> >
> >  cocoon.downloads:
> >    year,week,downloads
> >    2001,43,3898
> >    2001,44,3849
> >    ...
> >
> >  cocoon.downloads.totals:
> >    year,week,download-totals
> >    2001,43,348498
> >    2001,44,352849
> >    ...
> >
> > and so on for every subproject.
> >
> > Brian, do you see any problem for this? Don't worry, I'm not asking you
> > to do it, we'll provide the scripts, but we need root access to run them
> > and add to the cron list.
> >
> > Cocoon is then able to transform the above into XML files, process them
> > with XSLT stylesheets that generate SVG graphs and then rasterize them
> > into graphical images embedded into the site pages.
> >
> > Results are:
> >
> >  1) the site remains static, no additional load on apache.org machines
> >  2) everybody can have a simple window on the status of the subproject
> > (not only users, but developers from the other projects and apache
> > people outside of xml.apache.org)
> >  3) we show off the power of XML technologies for publishing.
> >
> > I volunteer to do all the above (but I'll need some help on the above
> > scripts since I'm no Perl guru of sort).
> >
> > As for DTDs, I'll try to stick with the DTDs we have and adapt the
> > stylesheets to the different DTDS (or write adapting stylesheets between
> > the various DTDs) In case this is not possible, I'll present here
> > alternative plans.
> >
> > But keep in mind that the idea is to simplify your life: if this is not
> > the case, I have failed and I need to fix that.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > --
> > Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
> >                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> > <stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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