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Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 16:54:30 +1100
From: Jeff Turner <jeff@socialchange.net.au>
To: general@xml.apache.org
Cc: general@jakarta.apache.org
Subject: Re: Business-Oriented XML
Message-ID: <20011117165430.C2168@socialchange.net.au>
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References: <PLEFKGHLMIEKJKKFPNFIOEEKFAAA.neeme@apache.org>
 <3BF5EE5E.88D1DB01@joot.com>
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On Fri, Nov 16, 2001 at 08:58:06PM -0800, Dave Jarvis wrote:
> Hello, again.
> 
> Neeme Praks wrote:
> > Have you ever had a look at Apache Cocoon project? That achieves all the
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > benefits you outlined in your paper plus more.
> 
> Here are a few items BOX addresses that Cocoon does not (as far as I can
> discern; please correct my errors):
> 
> 	o doesn't provide an inherent state-based architecture (it's an aside,
> not focus)

Nope, they threw out the "reactor" (state machine) pattern as being too
hard to manage.

> 	o doesn't automatically apply a different view of logic based on the
> domain

Certainly can :) Have a look at Cocoon 2's class
org.apache.cocoon.selection.HostSelector.

> 	o extremely complex; it mixes multiple languages and odd syntax (e.g.,
> &connectDatabase)

That's just your particular XSP, which uses an XML entity
"&connectDatabase;" to pull in other XSP. If you put your logic in
logicsheets as intended, then your XSP pages are pure XML.

> 	o makes it easy to couple presentation and logic (see below)

Actually, XSP makes it easy to mix *content* and logic (presentation is
in XSLs).

> 	o lacks an integrated expression parser
> 	o doesn't expose a consistent syntax for doing tasks such as:
> 		- file I/O
> 		- sending XML to remote servers

Have a look at Cocoon 2's xscript SOAP demo (xscript being an XSP
equivalent of James Strachan's xtags taglib).

> 		- calling native code (Java, C, Perl, etc.)
> 		- SQL statements
> 	o cookies, FORM parameters, and URL encoded variables are not treated
> uniformly
> 	o doesn't use plain XML (i.e., embeds other language source directly)

Anyway, if you've got time, hop on cocoon-dev.. I'm sure there's much
mutual learning to be had (it's a fun place to lurk anyway). Cocoon 2
has a very generic architecture, and I've no doubt that your code could
be integrated as an XSP alternative.


--Jeff

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