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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [POLL] WASP Lite on Apache?
Date Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:47:18 GMT
"Theodore W. Leung" wrote:
> On Thu, 2001-11-15 at 09:13, Anne Thomas Manes wrote:
> > More background: As Sam said earlier, two Systinet (formerly Idoox)
> > developers are committers on the Apache SOAP projects. The reason we elected
> > to go off and develop a separate code base was purely for timing reasons. We
> > wanted to release production-ready products as quickly as possible. We
> > didn't think that Apache SOAP would serve our purposes, and we didn't think
> > we could wait for Axis. So we designed our own. We released our SOAP stack
> > in September, and we're building additional products based on that
> > implementation.
> >
> > But we're not tied to our own SOAP stack. We designed the WASP product line
> > to be SOAP stack-agnostic. We are prepared to rip our SOAP stack out and
> > replace it with another SOAP stack if/when appropriate.
> >
> > We think it's pointless to fight over a SOAP stack. The SOAP stack should be
> > a part of the underlying fabric. What's important is that there is one, and
> > the one that's there is reliable, performant, feature-rich, flexible, and
> > extensible. Our primary goal is to get a really strong, pervasive SOAP stack
> > that fully supports JAXM, JAX/RPC, a complete implementation of SOAP Section
> > 5, support for SOAP 1.1 and SOAP 1.2, pluggable transport protocols, etc.
> Good.  That's very sensible.
> > I think it's a good idea that we formalize a plan to integrate the code
> > bases.

Ok, so let's see what we have on the table here:

1) a bunch of people interested in web services (this is a fact and must
not ignore this)

2) Apache SOAP and Apache Axis are dealing with this and Axis is very
likely to be the community of choice (I never liked the name Apache SOAP
myself so I'm happy to hear this)

3) This proposed donation is believed to bring new ideas and new
functionality on the table.

So, from where I stand: it makes sense to "refactor" these subprojects
under Apache and get Axis back to where it belong: the internal forking

Sam indicated that Axis is more or less Apache SOAP 2, well, then you
guys broke the revolutionary rules by giving subproject status to an
internal fork.

I'd love to see this mess fixed and my proposed plan is:

 1) the Apache subproject that takes care of web services becomes Apache
Axis (which is a cool name, BTW).

 2) Apache SOAP gets moved into Axis [or left there if everyone agrees
on letting it die out]

 3) WASP Lite is submitted to the Axis community which will then decide
what to do with that. Either refactor the code, or ship it as it is [but
with a new codename!] or making it the Axis 2.0 branch of the CVS. Up to

In short, I really don't see the need for three projects competing on
the same stuff with different mail lists. If they end up having
different CVS modules, that's a matter of CVS branches limitations.

But don't tell me that SOAP/Axis is like Cocoon1/Cocoon2 because you'd
be ignoring the fact that there is one big and very focused community,
not two.

And just as Catalina wasn't granted with its own subproject status
before turning into Tomcat 4.0, I clearly don't see why this was allowed
to happen with Axis, but it's the way it is and we must just consider
doing something that doesn't create any more community fragmentation in
the future.

Hope this helps in explaining my vision on this.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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