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From "Theodore W. Leung" <twle...@sauria.com>
Subject Re: [POLL] ebXML Reg./Rep. on Apache?
Date Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:00:57 GMT
I spoke on the phone with Peter about this proposal.  I think that the
folks involved with this piece of code have already started to do some
of the legwork to form that community.   I would expect a suitably
diverse list of committers to be a part of the project submission.

Ted

On Sun, 2001-10-28 at 07:19, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> [copied the XML PMC since I'm not sure all of them are subscribed here]
> 
> Peter,
> 
> first of all, thanks for writing us. See my comments intermixed.
> 
> Peter Kacandes wrote:
> > 
> > Background:
> > 
> > ebXML (electronic business XML) is an initiative sponsored by OASIS and
> > UN/CEFACT to create "a modular suite of specifications that enables enterprises
> > of any size and in any geographical location to conduct business over the
> > Internet."
> 
> Yes. Personally, I am aware of ebXML and I think it has great potentials
> since everybody that "get" XML knows that it will be useless without
> somebody to define and arbiter a solid foundation of schemas,
> namespaces, metadate schemas and their relations.
> 
> > One of the specifications in the ebXML suite deals with XML registries and
> > repositories: "The OASIS ebXML Registry TC develops specifications to achieve
> > interoperable registries and repositories, with an interface that enables
> > submission, query and retrieval on the contents of the registry and repository."
> > 
> > Details can be found at:
> > http://www.ebxml.org/
> > http://www.ebxml.org/specs/index.htm#technical_specifications
> > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/regrep/
> > 
> > As part of our work on the ebXML initiative, Sun Microsystems Inc. has developed
> > a JavaTM based implementation of the registry and repository specification that
> > we have shown on various occasions such as trade show demos.
> 
> Ok.
>  
> > We have received numerous inquiries from many different parts of the developer
> > community expressing interest in being able to work on this implementation to
> > produce a fully specification compliant implementation.
> 
> Good.
>  
> > Sun has determined and given approval for making this implementation available
> > to an open source community. Consequently, we would like to submit this proposal
> > to the members of the Apache XML project for consideration of accepting this
> > donation as a sub-project.
> > 
> > Thank you very much for your attention to and consideration for this proposal.
> 
> The Apache Software Foundation goals are to help keeping the web open
> and making sure that new technologies keep the web as open as it is
> today (or even more).
> 
> Personally, I can see only benefits in having something to do with more
> business oriented areas of the web and web services. The SOAP/Axis
> subproject go exactly in that direction even if some of us don't like
> the technology (me being one of them).
> 
> This said, it is important for you to understand that we at Apache don't
> value software but value the community of users and developers behind
> it.
> 
> For this reason, it doesn't make much sense to us to accept a software
> donation if this doesn't help the establishment of a community around it
> to further enhance the software and, doing so, influence the design of
> the standards that it is based on.
> 
> I hope you understand this is a vital point for us: a software without a
> community is dead even if you have the source available. Opening up the
> source code doesn't make a project successuful, it takes much more and
> we don't have the energy to help making successful every closed-source
> project, it must come here already healthy enough to stand on its feet.
> 
> For this reason, we tend not to accept a project submission if there are
> less than two active developers that are committed to work on the code
> on a regular basis and to help bootstrap the community by answering
> questions to users, write docs, commit user-submitted patches.
> 
> Then, we value diversity and volunteer effort: if the dev team is
> entirely composed by people working by the same company and paid to do
> the job, we consider this dev community not enough "healthy", from an
> open source point of view, because it will be easy to get to political
> friction due to the misconception that those developers might act for
> their employer rather than for themselves.
>  
> > We look foward to your questions, comments, or concerns.
> 
> ebXML is not the only organization that aims to create business
> standards. I might add that this is a politically intense area where
> friction can be easily develop and hardly dissipate.
> 
> This warns me to be overly cautious when judging a project submission on
> this area.
> 
> While I understand that Sun's intention might be honest and open the
> software to encouradge participation (something that I would only
> plaud), others might think that Sun is willing to take advantage of
> Apache's visibility to further push their ideas on this market.
> 
> Our duty on general@ lists (both xml's and jakarta's) is not to judge
> the technical details behind the proposed software (not at all!), but to
> judge the "health" of the community around the software.
> 
> For more information, please read
> 
>   http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
> 
> which was written for the Jakarta Project but holds the same spirit we
> would like to use here.
> 
> IMHO, accepting the submission would create more problems than it would
> solve from a community point of view, but I'd like to hear other
> comments before stating a pending negative vote.
> 
> My suggestion, for now, would be to try to bootstrap a community
> in-house at Sun (or at ebXML or at OASIS or at sourceforge.net, you pick
> the one you like the most) and try to generate diversity in the
> development community.
> 
> When (if?) this happens, I'll be more than welcome to reconsider the
> submission under a different light against giving value to the status of
> the community rather than to the technical decisions of the project.
> 
> Please understand that my intention with this reasoning is not to judge
> the technical details of your proposal, but the energy that
> bootstrapping that community will require and, IMHO, this requires from
> us more energy that it might give back in the short term.
> 
> But, of course, this is just my personal opinion.
> 
> -- 
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



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