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From Arnaud Le Hors <leh...@apache.org>
Subject Re: JDOM in Apache (was Re: xml.apache.org charter proposal)
Date Sun, 01 Apr 2001 17:52:29 GMT
I'm being cited so I should probably state my position to make it clear.

It is true that I think we should not use JDOM in Xerces because it is
not a standard. But it is also true that I think we should not use JDOM
in Xerces because I don't like it. So both Ted and Scott are right. :-)

Now, before Jason or Brett jumps in with one of their favorite
statements a la 'but JDOM is now a JSR and is in the process of becoming
a standard', let me explain why I don't like it. Because this won't be
changed by the fact that JDOM becomes a standard.

I don't like JDOM mostly because it has been promoted from the beginning
on bogus assertions, by people who don't know what they were talking
about (Jason admitted to me, in public, that he had never read the DOM
spec). To start with, even though it doesn't compare to the DOM, it's
been promoted as 'faster and smaller than DOM'. But how in the world can
a set of concrete classes be faster and smaller than a set of
interfaces?? This doesn't make ANY sense.

In addition, I really dislike the way Jason and Brett have been
marketing JDOM. They say it has nothing to do with DOM, but its name for
a starter leads the mass to confuse the two. And this is no accident.
Even though they don't compare, DOM is being used to leverage JDOM. At
the XMLDevCon in San Jose, after a two hour presentation on JDOM a guy
asked 'DOM Level 2 just became a recommendation, is JDOM compliant?'.
Jason clearly annoyed first tried to explain why it is not, but this
statement was quickly softened by Brett who said it was 'DOM Level 2
compatible' because one could build a JDOM tree with DOM Level 2. At
that point the guy looked relieved... What do you think he understood???

I also dislike the fact that from day one JDOM was self declared as an
'emerging standard'. De facto standards happen because of their
technical merit. There is no need to give a presentation in every
conference and write an article in every magazine for that to happen.

And apart from all of this, I don't like JDOM because it is too much
object oriented. In my opinion relying on Java 2 collections which force
you to create new objects to perform a simple traverse is bad. Yes, I
know, I'm going to choke more than one person here, but the fact is that
objects are expensive, despite what Sun's marketing machinery would like
us to believe. As a matter of fact I wish the DOM wasn't so much OO. And
for that reason I certainly don't think DOM is the only API that should
exist to manipulate XML documents in memory. I would fully support a DTM
effort at Apache (cf Scott's message).
Arnaud  Le Hors

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